Reggie, please clear this up for me, did allend actually give you a link that proves the Catholics know Mary had children after Jesus by their own CE website?
You people all amuse me. You can't even read a simple article for comprehension, then you claim it attacks our own position then guffaw over our "stupidity." ------------------------------------------------------------
What is particularly amusing to me is how you immediately jumped to a conclusion as to what I had said in the first place.
Wrong! I merely said it was the same tired old argument from "Catholic Answers".
I might guffaw at your "brilliance" though.
Consider this passage from the site:
At the Annunciation, when the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her that she would conceive a son, she asked,
"How can this be since I have no relations with a man?" (Luke 1:34). From the earliest days of the Church, as the Fathers interpreted this passage of the Bible,
we see that Mary's question was taken to mean that she had made a vow of life-long virginity, even in marriage (this was not common, by any means, but neither was it unheard of). If she had not taken such a vow, the question would make no sense at all. We know that some first century Jews took such vows (for example, the Essenes, the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls), and Mary's question indicates that she had done so.
Mary knew the facts of life--she knew how babies are made (otherwise she wouldn't have asked the question she did).
If she had anticipated having children in the normal way and did not intend to maintain a vow of virginity, she would hardly have to ask "how" she was to have a child, since conceiving a child in the "normal" way would be expected by a newlywed wife. Her question only makes sense only if there was an apparent (but not a real) conflict between keeping a vow of virginity and acceding to the angel's request. A careful look at the New Testament shows that Mary kept her vow of virginity and never had any children other than Jesus.
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I looked in vain for the version of Luke 1:34 quoted in this piece but couldn't find it. I took the liberty of copying several versions.
Luke 1:34
RSV And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?"
NASB Mary said to the angel, ""How [22] can this be, since I [23] am a virgin?''
NIV "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
KJV Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Douay-Rheims And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
Can you tell me, from these words, how it can be construed "she had made a vow of life-long virginity"?
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Probably you should read it for yourself. Come to your own conclusions.
Catholic Answers - Perpetual Virginity
What is particularly amusing to me is how you immediately jumped to a conclusion as to what I had said in the first place. Wrong! I merely said it was the same tired old argument from "Catholic Answers". I apologize for lumping you in with the other guys, who were having a ball last night talking about how Catholic Answers shot themselves in the foot, or some such nonsense. I am always willing to discuss with people who have actual arguments.
I looked in vain for the version of Luke 1:34 quoted in this piece but couldn't find it. I took the liberty of copying several versions.
It's from the New American Bible, the newest modern Catholic translation. Go to newadvent.org and they have it and Douay Rheims there.
NAB But Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?" 12
Douay-Rheims And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
Can you tell me, from these words, how it can be construed "she had made a vow of life-long virginity"?
Sure. Mary says not that "this can't be, I haven't been with a man." She says "this can't be I do not have relations with men." The tense of the word seems to imply a continuing state. Not "I knew not a man" but "I know not man" Not "I haven't had relations" but "I have not relations"
Maybe a Greek guy can speak to this.
SD