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One of the basic tenants of repentence is that we finally recognize that we *are* wretched creatures who have have been following our own, or satans, wishes and desires, and not Gods...on purpose.

That we are incapable of desiring anything that is good, right?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. I believe in free will.

And by "flawed", I hope you're not implying that God screwed up and created something he didn't mean to create.

No, I contrast "flawed" with "wretched." "Damaged" with "broken." "Partially depraved" with "totally depraved." Calvinists believe that nothing that man can choose is ever good, that every instinct is to the bad. I don't believe that.

One of the basic tenants of repentence is that we finally recognize that we *are* wretched creatures who have have been following our own, or satans, wishes and desires, and not Gods...on purpose.
That we are incapable of desiring anything that is good, right?
Sorry, I'm not buying it. I believe in free will.

If you believe in free will then how come you were presenting the argument that pagans aren't choosing to reject God, only that they're uninformed?

Free will works both ways. One can choose to reject God, or one can choose to embrace him.

Calvinists believe that nothing that man can choose is ever good, that every instinct is to the bad. I don't believe that.

Dave, you either don't understand the doctrine (which is scriptural) of total depravity or you are deliberately misrepresenting it to those who don't know about it. Here is the actual definition:

Total Depravity The doctrine that fallen man is completely touched by sin and that he is completely a sinner. He is not as bad as he could be, but in all areas of his being, body, soul, spirit, mind, emotions, etc., he is touched by sin. In that sense he is totally depraved. Because man is depraved, nothing good can come out of him (Rom. 3:10-12) and God must account the righteousness of Christ to him. This righteousness is obtainable only through faith in Christ and what He did on the cross. Total depravity is generally believed by the Calvinist groups and rejected by the Arminian groups.

Notice it doesn't say that everything we think and do is evil, but we are incapable of pleasing God (being righteous) without his working in us first.

Now if you persist in misrepresenting it we can come up with our own definitions of your doctrines and titles. Oh say like mother of God, for instance. I know how much that would please you. Please try to understand the real meaning of our doctrines before you make yourself look too foolish. And by the way, we don't just think pagans are totally depraved, all people are born that way. It's all in the Bible, check it out.