You talkin' about these guys?
Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Could have been done via Mary's intercession, who knows. But I do wonder if this is where the expression "When the s*%@ hits the fan" originated from. Maybe its documented in the false decretals somewhere.
Since you believe this it must be true. -:)
BAPTIST HISTORY
"We do not intend that...all whom the Catholics or Protestants termed heretics were necessarily sound Baptists. However...from among those groups thus stigmatized are ...found our Baptist forefathers and they are a scarlet cord of witness for Christ." (Three Witnesses for the Baptists, Curtis Pugh, 1974)
"...anabaptism is...as contrary as can be to the doctrine of Christ and His Apostles:truly it is no marvel that the obstinate Anabaptists are kept under and punished by common laws...In the time that Decius and Gallus Caesar were Emperors, there arose a question in the parts of Africa of rebaptising heretics; and St. Cyprian, and the rest of the Bishops, being assembled together in the Council of Carthage, liked well of anabaptism...Against the Donatists St. Augustine, with other learned men, disputed. There is also an Imperial Law made by Honorius and Theodosius, that holy Baptism should not be iterated. Justinian Caesar hath published the same, in Cod. lib. I. Tit. 6, in these words. ‘If any Minister of the Catholic Church be detected to have rebaptised any, let both him which committed the unappeasable offence, (if at least by age he be punishable) and he, also, that is won and persuaded thereunto, suffer punishment of death." (Heinrich, or Henry Bullinger, 1504-1575, Protestant Swiss reformer that first aided then succeeded Zwingli, Sermons on the Sacraments, London 1811, p 186, 187, 189)
Decius, about 201-251 A.D., the first Roman Emperor to launch organized persecution against the Christians. (J.D. Douglas, et al, The Concise Dictionary of the Christian Tradition, Grand Rapids, 1989, p 119)
Bullinger testifies that as early as the Third Century A.D. the apostate church opposed the anabaptists!
Gallus Caesar (Gallerius), about 201-311 A.D., was probably responsible for initiating the persecution against Christians in 303. (Ibid, p 162)
Persecution by Decius failed to destroy anabaptism! According to Bullinger, anabaptists were still present, in Africa at least, into the Fourth Century!
Justinian Caesar, 483-565 A.D., was Roman Emperor from 527. He established many churches and monasteries. (Ibid, p 213)
Bullinger reveals that the apostate churches had joined with imperial Rome in the Sixth Century in outlawing anabaptism as a capital offense - proof of the pre-Reformation existence of persons outside of the state church that were holding Baptist views.
Bullinger is quoted as saying, "The Anabaptists think themselves to be the only true church of Christ and acceptable to God and teach that they who by baptism are received into their churches ought not to have any communion with evangelical or any other, whatsoever, for that our churches are not true churches any more than the Papists." (Graves, Old Landmarkism, 1881. P 115)
Ulrich (or Huldrych) Zwingli, 1484-1531, Swiss Reformer. Under his leadership, the Zurich City Council "...took the drastic step of decreeing death by drowning as the penalty for all those who persisted in the heresy" (of anabaptism). (G.W. Bromiley, The Library of Christian Classics, Vol XXIV p 120)
Zwingli is quoted as saying, "The institution of Anabaptism is no novelty, but for thirteen hundred years has caused great disturbance in the church, and has acquired such a strength that the attempt in this age to contend with it appears futile for a time." (John T. Christian, A History of the Baptists, 1922, Vol 1, p5-6.)
Zwingli also places Baptists in the Third Century, near the time when some apostate congregations began mixing Old Testament priesthood ideas with paganism under Christian names to form what is now known as the Catholic church. (The Christian Church, the Church of God of the Scriptures, in existence at that time was Baptist.) He testifies to the faithfulness of our Baptist forefathers in opposing the wicked innovations of Apostate Rome.
You talkin' about these guys?
Wow! He did! It must be true then. After all, he was there and everything.
What? He wasn't? Who is this "Bullinger"?
Heinrich, or Henry Bullinger, 1504-1575
This guy live in the 16th century and yet he "tesifies" to events of the third century? This is scholarship?
Who else is likewise "testifying" here? Zwingli? What's his story?
Ulrich (or Huldrych) Zwingli, 1484-1531, Swiss Reformer.
Oh, another expert on the early church.
I am still looking for the source of your quote from the cardinal from yesterday? Does there exist somewhere in the secret Baptist history vault any other copies of the imaginary letter "OPUS APUD"? I'd love to read the rest of it.
SD
We're over half way there. Looking forward to February!
You are on the Bump list (ya do know you will get beat up on Huh?*grin*)
Bring it! I have friends. And my pope can beat up your ... er .... whatever you call him. ;o)
SD
As for "mariology" and "saint worship", I would note that there are subtle and not so subtle differences between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic approached to Mary. Our constant use of the title Theotokos stresses that much of the honor we show her is bound up with sound Christology, while the West seems to perfer "Blessed Virgin Mary" at the usual reference. We also insist she died. Their Dogma of the Assumption of the BVM is carefully worded to give room for their faction which asserts she never died, but was assumed alive into heaven. We also deny their Dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the BVM, which to the Orthodox vitiates the identity of nature between Christ's humanity and our own.
As to "saint worship", I would again remind you that those in Christ, though they die, yet they are alive. Thus, we can ask their prayers. We honor the saints as Christ's friends, and those through whom God has shown forth his Uncreated Glory. The veneration of saints is a natural secondary outgrowth of the worship of the source of the Uncreated Glory (God), but is not worship itself.
By the way, glad to get a response. Thank you. Too often protestant posters refuse to answer me.
What do you expect? This has been going on for 500 years.
Psalm 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Hebrews 1;13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Matthew 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Ok. I looked them up. I know I lost alot of brain cells smokin' all those doobeys in Viet Nam before the Lord enlightened me. But could you please explain to me what the H...E......double hockey sticks you're talkin' about? Thank you in advance.
If an angel appeared to me and told me I must become a catholic. I'd choose this stuff. Makes much more sense than the Roman stuff.
I will put together a list that is Catholic/Protestant..interested in religious war..*grin*
We just need to remember that on the freep line all religious weapons are laid down!
I dont know al...the Calvinist are tough :>)
The argument you make is that this has God saying "after thy enemies are thy footstool, no longer sit at my right hand."
Simply put, you imply that Matt 1:25 means that after the "till" things from the first half of the sentence must change. If they had no relations "till" the child was born, they must have had them afterwards. That is your argument.
Using that argument, after God made footstools, he doesn't want Jesus at his right hand.
SD
Wait till you find out about the other, ascetic, requirements. Instead of no meat on Friday during Lent, it's no meat during Lent period! And their Lent is longer! And eggs and stuff count as meat!
SD
Case closed.
Crap. Should have read the fine print.
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