Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
We could talk about the Inquisition again... ;o)
Not usually (I don't interpret tongues). But I think in this case he is refering to all of the non-canonical "gospels" (Thomas etc.) written in the first couple centuries. All of those books that never made the canon, but concerned the sayings or deeds of Christ. Some parts undoubtedly true, most demonstrably false. Since they were written in the first couple centuries, it's good that Havoc recognizes that they were written by Catholics (this is a big admission for someone who previously didn't think they existed that far back), but of course, it was the Church that decreed that they were not canonical, so you can hardly say that the Church wrote them.
Must have been a catholic that put together the poll if they're gonna call me 100% protestant.
That's odd. I just checked my Bible, and it came back
1. Orthodox Judaism (100%)
Of course, mine doesn't have all those extra books tacked on the back... ;o)
Millitent?
Is that 1,000 tents?
No my son they never let go of you once they have you on their books, you know the book of live that they hand over to God at the judgement, beside your name in the book of life will be: Steven - Invincibly Ignorant. :)
BigMack
That great theologian SoothingDave doesn't agree with you. As a mater of fact, he calls you, and others like you, "delusional". So be it. SD has spoken.
They are not in active dissent at "womenpriest.org" Reggie. They agree with Rome, but are unclear as to whether this is ex cathedra or not. This can be dealt with later. They are not delusional like the priestess agitators.
SD
Not Reggie appearently. I wonder what the differences are.
No, it's 1/1000th of a tent. You Americans are never gonna learn the metric system!
SD
I know, but the gulf is wide on the sacraments and church authority issues, and justification and a few other things, so close but yet so far.
BigMack
Speak for yourself, Bozo.
I thought you would jump on the "none of us think crystals are going to help us reach enlightenment" comment first. You having scored so high on "New Age" and all. :)
Those "men who would be Gods"must have heard him because it seems that shortly thereafter the "big guns"were aimed at both the Church and the middle class. They have used taxes,sex without consequences and disdain for authority to pave the way.The conduits have been the media and the education system who are doing a good job,unfortunately.
David Knight says that his main concern is pastoral: to avoid Catholics who disagree Rome’s statement regarding the ordination of women being driven out of the Church. He explains that ‘Ordinatio Sacerdotalis’ is not infallible, in spite of the misleading language of the Congregation for Doctrine’s own words or the misguided commentary of some bishops. He ends with a warning.
He's afraid that Catholics that disagree with Rome's definitive statement (that must be held by all Catholics) might drive people out who dissent from it. Boo hoo. Let's look at his writing.
“ Suppose we leave Catholics with the impression--which they are being given now, intentionally or not--that this doctrine has been declared true by an exercise of the church's infallible teaching authority. And suppose that the next pope decides to ordain women after all--which could very easily happen if in fact the opinion of the present pope and of his committee on doctrine is wrong. If people then began to leave the church in droves, saying that the church had contradicted her own infallible teaching, we would be in a very weak position trying to explain, after the fact, that the teaching of John Paul and his doctrinal committee never was really infallible, and that we really knew it all the time but just never said anything. There is error in excessive affirmation as well as in denial. It is as much an error to say there are four divine Persons in the Blessed Trinity as to say there are only two. And it is as wrong to make the pope more infallible as it is to make him less. On the practical plane, to give the impression, intentionally or not, that something is being taught infallibly when it is not, is pastorally irresponsible and dangerous.”
Translation: I hope (pretty please, fingers crossed) that the next pope will make women priests, so I have to dissent and cal into question the infallibility of this statement, so that when the magic next great liberal pope comes we don't look like we changed our mind.
This is called being delusional. Refusal to relate to reality because of a hope that a future great, understanding progessive pope will grant our wish list.
Let's move on to the next wonderful theologian, Elizabeth Johnson.
The reasons [Rome gives] do not hold up, try as one might to entertain them. According to traditional Catholic teaching, the human faculty of judgment is not free, unlike our will. We can give genuine assent only to what presents itself to our mind as true: "The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it makes its entrance into the mind at once quietly and with power" (Vatican II, Declaration on Religious Freedom, 1). If a declared teaching or practice continuously jars our mind as missing the mark, as in the present case, it is our responsibility to explore and express the reasons why. This resistance is not to be equated with disloyalty or rebellion, let alone lack of faith, but with a form of loyalty and service.”
Ah yes. The old "if the Truth hurts, it must not be true" gambit. Coupled with the "my dissent is a more authentic form of the Faith, as it is a "form of loyalty and service."
How true. Unfortunately this isn't loyalty or service to God or the Church, but to one's own distorted conscience.
Yes, Reggie. These theologians are delusional. This is why Rome passed "Ex Corde Ecclesia," to make alleged "theologians" accountable.
SD
Speak for yourself, Bozo.
I was going to exclude you by name, but thought I might offend you. Oh well. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Sorry.
SD
Function: adjective
1 : engaged in warfare or combat : FIGHTING
You know stuff like patroling the perimeter of the compound. Seeking out heretics and driving them up tall buildings. :)
BigMack
What element of an infallible pronouncement do you think is missing here? he clearly is expressing a teaching that he is holding all Catholics to submit to. It is clearly conistent with Tradition and Scripture. A few flakes here or there in the modern era notwithstanding, it is an idea universally held by the Bishops and the faithful.
SD
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