Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Why don't you go back over the posts and find something from each one of us that you disagree with and then tell us how much we smell? Seems as though thats your ministry. Pathetic as it might be.
The Bible speaks for itself. Your version of it hopes that no one reads beyond what you selectively use. Peter wasn't first, had no primacy, excercised no primacy, wasn't regarded as cheif among them and wasn't treated as such. This ground has been trod upon regularly. You have to go outside of the Biblical record because it isn't in the Bible. Peter had no primacy. And that doesn't deal with whether he had any ability to pass it on if he did have. Neither is established.
And to speak as if someone "usurped" authority is to speak nonsense.
No, it is to speak plain truth. You don't want to deal with it; but, you can't avoid it. The Fraud of the early years was merely an attempt for Rome to weild the power of the empire and of the church. "USURP" is the appropriate word; because Jesus is the Head of the Church - period. Any man claiming to be so usurps the role of the Lord our God. I'm not debating that point, I'm stating it as immovable. You haven't established in scripture that any man has been given the Place of Christ at the head of the Church in any capacity - regardless of what you wish to make it look as though Peter might be - or anyone else for that matter. Jesus didn't pick a successor because no one can succeed Him. He isn't dead. Long live the King!
I don't mind if you do. But this is not the 'passing fancy' of modern translators so much as the correction of an inaccuracy.
anyway it leaves open the question whether it is the 'virgin' who will call Him Immanuel or God who will do so. Note, the first part states it is God who is giving the sign. Hence, it seems to me one can read this verse to say, God will cause a virgin to conceive, God will cause her to bear a son, and God will cause his name to be Immanuel -God with us.
Sorry, but this is incorrect. In English, the colon ":" separates the two parts of the sentence. "The young woman" is clearly the subject of the second part. Now, what does the subject do?
1. ...shall conceive...
2. ...and bear a son...
3. ...and shall call his name Immanuel.
Note the parallel verb structure between the "shall conceive" and "shall call". Note that the two verb phrases are joined by the conjunction "and". Note that there is no subordinate clause present which introduces a new subject for "shall call". For the verse to read as you suggest, it would have to say:
Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: behold, the young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and the Lord shall call his name Immanuel.
But it doesn't say this. There is no ambiguity here whatsoever.
Hence, to me at least, if God says, "His name is Immanuel -God is with us" then, boom, God is with us.
Does this mean that Jesus was 'begotten' in 700 B.C.E.? I don't really think this is what you mean to say.
And do I really need to go into just how deeply I, as a Catholic, believe God really is "with us" in the Eucharist?-)
He's really "with us" right now, too.
Somewhat. I wanted to hear what you would have to say. Remember JHavard accusing the entire Internet as being a Catholic front? Anyway.
Why do you suppose the professional Catholic Apologists dominate these articles?
I don't know if they are all professionals. But there are a good number because God's people recognize the need for such people to spread the Truth, and support these fine men.
I am certain you are familiar with the science of propaganda. No? Are you familiar with the history of propaganda?
You mean proPAGANda?
FYI. The truth is not always with those who make the most noise and get the most print.
And on the flip side, the Truth is not always found in the tiny bunkers. It is just as much a folly to believe nothing in the mainstream as it is to believe everything.
SD
To admit that Jesus is not God and you are wrong, is that about it angelo?
BigMack
Now you're getting hysterical. Nobody says Peter or his successors are the head of the Church, replacing Jesus. None of them are successors of Jesus. You really have a hard time with the concept of "vicar" don't you?
(Hint: If the king makes me his vicar, that makes me his vicar. It doesn't make me the king!)
SD
SD
Mack, I don't think angelo wants to destroy your faith and I think saying so is an insult. You know angelo better than that.
I think he just wants us to recognize that the prophetic text used for the Virgin Birth is on shaky ground linguistically. That doesn't mean the Virgin Birth didn't happen, or that Jesus isn't God. He just doesn't like seeing his Bible used in a misleading way anymore than Havoc likes the way I use the Bible to show Peter as Pope.
SD
Does it necessarily mean "truth"?
No, it means unverified and unverifiable. Which is not the same as fiction.
SD
No that wouldn't be enough. He'd want me to visit his "convert to Judaism" link. :-)
You have the dubious distinction of being the first to reply to the disregarding of an Apostle of God, my beloved Paul, by a person who rejects the blood of the only begotten Son of God. Let that be the start of my "pathetic" ministry to you brother as God is witness.
Your ministry is one of self-absorption. I'm not interested. But thanx for asking.
You'd definitely like him. I worked with him for a few years in Austin before our entire department got hosed. He always had something interesting to say and was always very friendly to everyone.
angelo is a big boy, and besides if your gonna dance you gotta pay the fiddler.
BigMack
No, but unless you can show it isn't fiction, it cannot be assumed to be otherwise.
"..a Legend and an outta work bum look a lot alike, Daddy." - Lil Enus Burdett
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