The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[SoothingDave]

I only have to explain things to people who lack the understanding of the terms and concepts involved. Or those looking for loopholes.

Sure Dave.

I can assure you that had Havoc and company not accused the Church of being "soft" on homosexuality, and you backing him up by looking for loopholes, I would not have had to spend the time to try to explain words to people.

If you or he gave us the slightest amount of credit, or considered us a conservative Christian Church, you would not make such accusations and and I wouldn't have to explain things like "chastity" and "intrinsically disordered."

Answer this honestly. Do you think the Church approves of incest? Beastiality? Necrophilia?

This question is much too rediculous to answer. The mere fact that you'd ask it speaks more of you than your many words.

Why is it ridiculous? You are the one claiming the Church doesn't disapprove of homosexuality or incest, doesn't call it evil. Using your loophole parsing, this is exactly the relevant question for you.

The fact that you can not speak up and say one nice thing about the Church's teaching on sexual morality speaks more than your many words.

SD

[Wordsmith]

I would submit if Mary could hear more than 1 prayer at a time that would make her something other than mere man.

I'd say that any glorified saint has certainly become more than "mere" - i.e., fallen - man.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Well MY complaint that you always start by complaining aboiut the lack of Scriptural support for Marian doctrines, but it always ends up that you don't recogize heroic virtue, even that exhibited in Scripture.

You mean no support for marion doctrines. Guilty as charged. As for "heroic virture" I guess that makes you feel better when you can reduce non-worshippers of Mary to not ever regarding her as blessed. Dream on.

Therefore, all the "saved" are equal,and since you won't be in heaven until after Judgement Day, neither can the human being who is closest to Jesus in every way.

Again. Read whatever you'd like into my posts. The truth doesn't matter if it bolsters your fantasies. Now go hound someone else. You still haven't ever answered my question.

[OLD REGGIE]

For what it's worth, we, the NC's, generally refer to Roman Catholics as RC's, and their Church as the RCC even though many RC's seem to think "Church" as synonomous with "Roman Catholic Church" and "Catholic" with "Roman Catholic".

By avoiding "pet" names for anothers Church and/or religion we avoid much of the misunderstanding which could result over the meaning of our choice of words.

All of this to say, I wish you would accept this "tradition" and replace your favorite words with RCC and RC.

Thanks,

Reggie

[SoothingDave]

Therefore, all the "saved" are equal,and since you won't be in heaven until after Judgement Day, neither can the human being who is closest to Jesus in every way.

I thought you just argued with me that you couldn't be sure if people were in Heaven yet or not. You seem pretty sure that not even the admittedly no longer living on earth Mary is in Heaven now. What changed?

SD

[Wordsmith]

Thanks, LOL! :)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Therefore, all the "saved" are equal,and since you won't be in heaven until after Judgement Day, neither can the human being who is closest to Jesus in every way.

I thought you just argued with me that you couldn't be sure if people were in Heaven yet or not. You seem pretty sure that not even the admittedly no longer living on earth Mary is in Heaven now. What changed?

That's not my quote. Its Robby's. That was him telling me what I believe.

[SoothingDave]

And don't forget the tabouli and baklava.

Tabouli is a new one to me. Does it mean ") a finely chopped salad with tomatoes and parsley and mint and scallions and bulgur wheat"?

Quick, what's the difference between halushki and halupki?

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

What if the only Word that we had received from God was that we were sinners and would pay for our sin by spending eternity in hell, but he gave us a way out, that Jesus would take our place by dying on the cross and pay our price if we would accept it from the bottom of our hearts, and admit we were sinners, and be ever thankful for what he was doing for us. Because all God ever wanted was for us to Love Him like He Loves us. One small page from God. What would you say?

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

That's not my quote. Its Robby's. That was him telling me what I believe.

Then I apologize again. I'll try to pay better attention next time.

SD

[Wordsmith]

Because men expect to see heaven on earth--even a perfect church...

Hey, word of the day time! This is the specific heresy of "chiliasm."

[SoothingDave]

What would you say?

What are the hours? :-)

I think we all say "yipee!" We are just having a difference in opinion about what it all means and what being "ever thankful for what he was doing for us" means.

SD

[Wordsmith]

Thanks Reggie, well said.

[al_c]

Thank you, Reggie.

[OLD REGGIE]

You keep ignoring the assent given by Pope John VIII to the council we Orthodox call the Eighth Ecumenical Council: it anathematized the council you Latins call the Eighth Ecumenical Council.

It isn't surprising. Dave ignores anything which he wishes to ignore.

You may have noticed, earlier he made a positive statement that the First Council of Nicea was approved by the Pope. He has ignored that one of the Canons of this council had a direct bearing of the "ecumenical" understanding of the primacy of Rome.

It appears he might have read what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say on the matter:

Canon 6: Concerning patriarchs and their jurisdiction.

And, he ignores the canon:

Canon 6:

The ancient customs of Egypt, Libya and Pentapolis shall be maintained, according to which the bishop of Alexandria has authority over all these places since a similar custom exists with reference to the bishop of Rome. Similarly in Antioch and the other provinces the prerogatives of the churches are to be preserved. In general the following principle is evident: if anyone is made bishop without the consent of the metropolitan, this great synod determines that such a one shall not be a bishop. If however two or three by reason of personal rivalry dissent from the common vote of all, provided it is reasonable and in accordance with the church's canon, the vote of the majority shall prevail.

[al_c]

Sounds great! But you know us mere mortals ... we gotta make things complicated. ;o)

[Wordsmith]

Tabouli is a new one to me. Does it mean ") a finely chopped salad with tomatoes and parsley and mint and scallions and bulgur wheat"?

Yes. Fantastic stuff, if made with fresh ingredients by someone who knows what they're doing. Up there with stuffed grape leaves, hummus, and pita on the standard Middle Eastern restaurant menu.

Quick, what's the difference between halushki and halupki?

Sorry, can't seem to find these in my Orthodox dictionary! I'll have to check my Lenten cookbook later!! :)

[SoothingDave]

Sorry, can't seem to find these in my Orthodox dictionary! I'll have to check my Lenten cookbook later!!

Halushki will do for Lent. It is a mixture of cabbage and onions and butter. Halupki is the official name (though in what Eastern European language I know not, maybe Polish) for the stuffed cabbage, "pigs in a blanket," "Hunky hand grenades" that are standard wedding fare in these parts.

SD

[Wordsmith]

What if the only Word that we had received from God was that we were sinners and would pay for our sin by spending eternity in hell, but he gave us a way out, that Jesus would take our place by dying on the cross and pay our price if we would accept it from the bottom of our hearts, and admit we were sinners, and be ever thankful for what he was doing for us. Because all God ever wanted was for us to Love Him like He Loves us. One small page from God. What would you say?

To be honest, I think I'd say "no thanks, why should this Jesus suffer for my faults?" Presented in this way, it just doesn't seem just, and my heart would tell me that the True God would be just. The way this reads, I am reminded of a story by Dosteovsky, probably from The Brothers Karamazov. One of the characters asks what we would do if told that we would all be saved, if only we'd assent to the horrible torture and death of a little child. I think that a Godly conscience is repelled by this. We must know who Christ is, and know the Truth of the Resurrection, before being able to assent to His redemptive sacrifice and conquest of Death. God Bless.

[SoothingDave]

To be honest, I think I'd say "no thanks, why should this Jesus suffer for my faults?"

Excellent point. We all read our already existing notions when he used the word "Jesus." Good catch.

SD