Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Nope. I won't be here for a while after baby arrives. Tomorrow is the last day y'all will have the likes of me to kick around for at least 2 weeks. I will pop in for the obligatory announcement, tho.
Hmmmm ....
Nope. :o(
One thing that pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath, and post-trib rapture folks all have in common....they all believe that the Lord Jesus is coming back soon! However the 'blessed hope' is only for those who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture. The other views unfortunately, are all waiting for the anti-christ and not the Lord Jesus Christ. They have lost their blessed hope! The other views are robbers to the Christian as they seek to steal from the believer the imminent, soon, unknown, time & hope of the rapture.
Matthew 24:42
42 WATCH THEREFORE: FOR YE KNOW NOT WHAT HOUR YOUR LORD DOTH COME.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: FOR IN SUCH AN HOUR AS YE THINK NOT THE SON OF MAN COMETH.
Since the false rapture views believes the rapture will occur sometime after the 70th week then why the command to WATCH and be READY? In the verses above the exhortation is to WATCH, WATCH, WATCH, and be ready! Why WATCH if the rapture will not occur until the end of the 70th week. Why bother watching for the coming of Jesus? Why not wait until you are in the 70th week to begin the watch. Human nature being what it is, that is what most people will do. So not only does the incorrect rapture views rob the Christian of the Blessed Hope of Christ coming to take him from the world before God judges it....he has no purifying incentive in lifestyle. Jesus cannot come today so why live in Holy expectation of His coming? However the pre-tribulation view has a great BLESSED HOPE looking for the coming of Jesus at an UNKNOWN time....that time could be today!!!!! Since the time is unknown and it COULD be today this is a purifying hope also....and encourages Holy living.
Titus 2:13 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
The post/mid/pre-wrath robs the believer of both the blessed imminent expectation of the believer and the purifying hope of Christ's return which could happen today! These views are a robber. Another way these incorrect rapture views robs from the blessed hope is... if the Church has to go through the 70th week it doesn't have much to look forward to. There will be 7 seal judgments, 7 trumpet judgments, and 7 bowl judgments. During that time all the vegation will be burned up, all the water will be polluted and turned to blood, the sun will scorch men, there will be massive earthquakes that shake every city in the world, and 100 pound hailstones. Now for the average person looking forward to going through that....we don't have a hope but rather a dread and something to be feared. Then as a result of God judging the world there will be massive death and not many men will make it to the end...maybe only several million as opposed to 6+ billion currently living. What a 'hope' these views offers... almost certain death as God judges the world with His bride it it. Then they have the nerve to call those who believe in the Pre-tribulation rapture as an 'escape' theology. God has promised an escape from His Wrath and Judgment for His people and these false views make a mockery of that promise. This does not make sense to me!!...or to the intelligent person who thinks it through.
BigMack
I think the point is moot as far as the bible is concerened. When Jesus said:
Joh 3:13 And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven
I don't think he was playing word games. He was telling us straight out that nobody had gone to heaven, which is most likely the truth since only by his death and resurrection was the doorway open.
This seems to be born out by John:
Joh 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God, He has seen the Father.
Joh 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
If Elijah were in heaven wouldn't it make sense that he saw God?
Yeah, but what an exciting time to be alive, eh?
SD
Anyway that is trying not to be to negative:) The thing I find so sad about this is that the adults who are around these kids all think of them as good kids. I do too. They're not bad. They are a product of our schools systems, public and private, and parents who are more interested in their own careers then in raising their kids. IMO
Becky
Joh 3:13 And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven
I don't think he was playing word games. He was telling us straight out that nobody had gone to heaven, which is most likely the truth since only by his death and resurrection was the doorway open.
When you put it like that, I can't argue with you. I am not sure where Elijah was taken to, likely the Limbo of the Fathers, but you are correct that it wasn't heaven. Sorry for the confusion.
SD
Scary, isn't it?
Maybe he'll just cut and paste the scripture itself.
Seriously, though ... I'm sure Steven or anyone else here is capable of putting some daily scripture into the thread on a regular basis. But if someone wants to lift the code from EWTN's site and the text from WAU, they're more than welcome to do so ... and I'd appreciate it. Also, if anyone wants to do this, freepmail me and I'll run you through my process.
AC
Hey I was taught in typing class to space a couple of times after a colon. Thats why it bothers me.
Don't forget verse 24. Its a contexual thing. Remember?
Becky
If you have a martyr complex then why wait until the tribulation of the 70th week. Why not go to Saudi Arabia and preach the Gospel...or go to Tehran and hand out Gospel tracts? I guarantee you will get your desired results TODAY! Prove you do not wish to 'escape tribulation'. :)
BigMack
In a sentence in normal English, yes. If it's 2:50 in the afternoon I don't write 2: 50. Likewise with the common Bible chapter:verse thing.
SD
Its these 2 verses catholics twist to make it look like Joseph and Mary never bebopped. :-) I love to remind them of these verses. That's all.
OK. Right after Havoc drinks a big bottle of poison or handles some vipers. ;-)
SD
Reminds me of when my 13 year old came back from "health" class. Our discussion got around to AIDS and how she told us that "anyone can get it." We (my wife and I) explained that we will NEVER get it and never be at risk of getting it, since we are completely faithful to each other. We then explained that she will never get it and won't be at risk if she doesn't have sex until she's married and marries the right guy. What torks me is that they emphasize the disease, but they don't emphasize how easy it is to avoid it.
Becky
And what other name would you give this besides crap?:)
Becky
So you do wish to 'escape tribulation'
BigMack
And what other name would you give this besides crap?:)
Bovine scat of course...
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