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Victory From Space: This is no time for science to retreat; it must attack.
www.habitablezone.com ^ | Oct 2001 | Robert Zubrin

Posted on 10/14/2001 3:50:37 PM PDT by AdrianZ

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To: Moonman62
I wonder if it would help explain why communism took hold in poor, agricultural nations rather than the industrial ones Marx intended.

I think it does. The true believer is someone who regards himself as essentially worthless, and he finds a fake kind of self esteem in some movement which is larger than himself. In a free enterprise society, people can find fulfillment in many ways, so there are fewer victims for cults like Marxism, etc.

41 posted on 10/14/2001 7:17:51 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
Really? Suppose a fundamentalist gov't decreed that all books (other than those few on the approved list) must be turned in to designated centers for destruction. Penalty for being found in possession of a forbidden book is death. My guess is that a fundamentalist gov't could bring about a new Dark Age very quickly. No problem at all.

Part of the reason I'm so strongly anti-UN. I don't like the idea of putting all our eggs in one basket. Plus the UN seems to be strongly dominated by African and Islamic dictators, not exactly fonts of freedom and enlightenment.

42 posted on 10/14/2001 8:08:26 PM PDT by Godel
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To: Physicist

Some of the most cherished and profound moments of my life were experienced on the top and in the observation deck of the south tower of the World Trade Center. ...

It was an achievement-worshipper's religious experience.

I have no doubt that, at some point, the plan to destroy those particular towers was hatched when someone connected to the event went where I went, saw what I saw, felt what I felt, and hated it. When the towers were destroyed, I knew immediately why they, of all things in the world, were targeted. They were an embodiment of human greatness, and a vantage point from which one could see further greatness, still. Of course they had to be destroyed. Anyone going up there was put face to face with the irreducible truth of the greatness of mankind.

Eloquent-defense-of-reason BUMP!

43 posted on 10/15/2001 3:39:30 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: AdrianZ
So that's why Islam was able to come up with algebra & other mathematic & scientific accomplishments so early.
44 posted on 10/15/2001 3:41:29 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: PatrickHenry
Here's a different view from here. It's buried down in the middle of the web log, so I'll provide it here in this post as well:

Lunar Zion

Now, what to make of Dr. Bob Zubrin?

Not being a current Space News subscriber, I haven't read the opinion piece that he wrote a few days ago, though I saw the following excerpt at Keith Cowing's NASA Watch web site:

With the [Islamic] fundamentalist takeover, the most glorious civilization humanity had ever known was turned into a dung heap of misery, mental slavery, degradation and ignorance. A quarter of the world has turned into a graveyard of the mind, which for the past 700 years has not produced a single significant scientific advance.

If I am informed correctly, Bob proposes that we really spite and put it to those scientifically-ignorant medieval towel heads by colonizing Mars. Now is that in your face, or what?

What with calls for new gun control, increased wiretapping, airline and hospitality industry bailouts, more handouts for the national strategic peanut industry, etc., I probably would have been shocked if Bob hadn't also figured out a way to hijack last month's atrocities for his own narrow political agenda. But even for Bob, it's almost breathtaking in its verve and audacity.

Unfortunately for Bob and humanity's near-term future on subdividing the Red Planet, I suspect that the political establishment will find his call to arms less than compelling. Even if it were viewed as an effective tactic for ending terrorism ("Take that, Osama, you unscientific infidel"), the time frame involved in implementing his solution to terrorism would likely strain the patience of the American people, who, if we are to believe the polls, are willing to wait a few weeks or months to see some concrete action, but probably not decades.

Apparently the National Space Society and the Mars Society (at least the Canadian branch) have disavowed his comments, and made clear that he spoke for himself alone. But the little imbroglio did get me to thinking. Is there some way to hijack^H^H^H^H^H^H assist in the War on Terrorism (still need a better name) that can also advance the cause of space development? Doing well by doing good, so to speak?

A week or two ago, I started a thread on sci.space.policy entitled "Lunar Palestine." The thread quickly drifted off to the topics of single-stage-to-orbit, and gun control, and what asses various members of the newsgroup are (no, I'm not going to name names) as threads on s.s.p are wont to do, and we never really resolved the issue of whether or not, assuming that we did make the Moon at least as habitable as, say, circa-1982 Beirut, the Palestinians could be persuaded to move there in their own homeland.

But thinking some more, I now have a better solution. In a discussion with Jim Bennett, it was pointed out that the Zionists (being socialists, and largely atheistic) were originally not even seeking to live in what is today Israel--they were looking at places like Madagascar and Siberia. The Holy Land only became the favored destination after they joined forces with the Orthodox Jews already living there (who were actually opposed to a Jewish state, but eventually went along, as long as it would be in ancient Judea, and be a real Jewish state). This marriage of convenience resulted in modern Israel, with all its quirks, contradictions, and violence.

Perhaps, with what's been going on the past few years (you know, intifadas and stuff), the Zionists could be persuaded to say, "To hell with it!", pull up stakes and move to Luna. A space colony is actually pretty well suited to a kibbutz social model, and they could get back to their socialist roots. They're already used to living places that are short of water--they'd figure out how to make do. That would be a form of socialism that I could probably get behind, because it might save us more money in reduced oil prices than it would cost, and it would push the development of the technology, making it affordable for us capitalists to do stuff in space as well.

45 posted on 10/15/2001 3:54:03 PM PDT by NonZeroSum
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To: NonZeroSum
Perhaps, with what's been going on the past few years (you know, intifadas and stuff), the Zionists could be persuaded to say, "To hell with it!", pull up stakes and move to Luna. A space colony is actually pretty well suited to a kibbutz social model, and they could get back to their socialist roots.

Sounds like a very expensive way to solve the "Palestine problem" and I don't like it one bit. It would be insane for the US to "give" the moon to anyone, and certainly not to a gang of socialists. The moon may have little value today, but that was true of Alaska back in the 1860s, when we acquired it. Besides, if we need the moon for a pit-stop to elsewhere, do you want to be begging a bunch of socialists for landing rights? The moon belings to us. All of it. That's my position, and I ain't budging.

46 posted on 10/15/2001 4:23:10 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: AdrianZ
One thing we need: THOR.

Imagine a steel crowbar, weighing about 20 pounds, floating in orbit with a small rocket motor.

Upon receiving a command from, say, a Theater CinC, the rocket motor fires, and the crowbar loses ALL of its orbital velocity vector. It is now coming down at about five miles per second.

The crowbar is shaped to cut cleanly through the air; small tabs act as steering vanes. Multispectral imaging allows it to see through the superheated plasma it generates on reentry.

It's target description was transmitted as it received the order to deorbit. It consults computer memory and compares its intended target to what its sensor sees, fine-tunes its aimpoint, and drops down onto its target...with the force of a 500-pound bomb concentrated onto an incredibly small surface. Tanks cannot hope to have enough armor to stop it. A bunch of these scattered along a road can turn an armored division into a mass of wrecked tanks, each one occasionally spewing forth fire and explosions as ammunition ignites. A single one dropped onto a bigwig's limo can turn it into a small pile of scrap metal.

YEE-HAW!

47 posted on 10/15/2001 4:36:49 PM PDT by HoweverComma
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To: RadioAstronomer; PatrickHenry; longshadow
I would die with my books! I love to read. It is a fundamental part of my makeup.

Bump for bibliomania, the only hobby that is classified as a medical pathology! I, too, suffer from the gentle madness.

48 posted on 10/15/2001 5:37:50 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: Lazamataz
Plus our transporters will help beam bin Ladin into jail, and our phasers can be set to cut right through the rock of the mountains he lurks in.

Mabye not our phasers, but mass drivers can tear a mountain complex up pretty good, and create new lake (or ocean)front property to boot! :-)

The Moon's a Harsh Mistress indeed......

49 posted on 10/15/2001 5:41:10 PM PDT by adx
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To: PatrickHenry
Sounds like a very expensive way to solve the "Palestine problem" and I don't like it one bit. It would be insane for the US to "give" the moon to anyone, and certainly not to a gang of socialists. The moon may have little value today, but that was true of Alaska back in the 1860s, when we acquired it. Besides, if we need the moon for a pit-stop to elsewhere, do you want to be begging a bunch of socialists for landing rights? The moon belings to us. All of it. That's my position, and I ain't budging.

Did you now that the word "gullible" isn't in the dictionary?

50 posted on 10/15/2001 5:42:54 PM PDT by NonZeroSum
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To: adx
but mass drivers can tear a mountain complex up pretty good

Rail Gun! :) I have a friend who made a working one in his garage! :)

He and I also made a 7 fot high Tesla coil that would produce 10 foot arcs! The first time we lit it up in his driveway (about dusk to see it better), it was a sight to see. We had installed a rotating spark gap oscillator and the secondary coil leaked a bit. So we wound up with this flikering electric blue seven foot high cylinder throwing off 10 foot arcs on top. WOW! Well, it made quite a racket, destroyed all forms of radio communications from DC to light, and got noticed by the neighbor. Duh! :) She calls the cops and reports UFOs have landed. Cops show up and we never turned it on in his front yard ever again.

51 posted on 10/15/2001 5:59:18 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: WRhine
You have freep mail :)
52 posted on 10/15/2001 6:00:31 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: NonZeroSum
Did you now that the word "gullible" isn't in the dictionary?

Really? No fooling? Golly. Upon realizing that you had gulled me, I was about to hit the abuse button, but my mouse jumped and I hit the self search button too. I ended up in self-abuse mode! Try it; you'll like it.

53 posted on 10/15/2001 6:24:45 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: RadioAstronomer
I can dig it, man. I'm an EE undergrad student myself, although I can't say I've ever done something like that! Would be pretty cool for parties, especially if I can synch it to the bass from the turntables. :)
54 posted on 10/15/2001 6:33:52 PM PDT by adx
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To: adx
ROFL! One hell of a party addition. :) BTW. That was the closest I ever came to going to jail. LOL!!!
55 posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:21 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: RadioAstronomer
That was the closest I ever came to going to jail. LOL!!!

Relax; there still time.

56 posted on 10/15/2001 9:21:32 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: longshadow
Relax; there still time.

Sheesh! :)

57 posted on 10/15/2001 9:37:02 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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