US puts squeeze on Israel

The US is to make a determined effort to force Israel to enter into peace negotiations with the Palestinians, fearing that the west is in danger of losing the propaganda war with Osama bin Laden.

In an attempt to address one of the main Muslim grievances, President, George Bush will use all the financial and political muscle at his disposal to push the Israelis and Palestinians to the negotiating table.

Mr Bush, whose patience with the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, has finally snapped, is drawing up a detailed plan to be published in the next few weeks in the hope of finally resolving 53 years of conflict.

But Mr Sharon, whose camp has been unnerved by the development, will not be moved easily, and the scene is set for a gigantic battle of wills. Tony Blair, who returned to London last night from a two-day visit to the United Arab Emirates, Oman and Egypt, highlighted a gnawing anxiety in the US and Britain.

Only five days after the bombing of Afghanistan began, Mr Blair made the extraordinary admission that the west was in danger of losing the propaganda war in Muslim states. He said: "One thing becoming increasingly clear to me is the need to upgrade our media and public opinion operations in the Arab and Muslim world. There is a need for us to communicate effectively."

Bin Laden electrified parts of the Muslim world within hours of the first bombs landing on Afghanistan by releasing a video in which he tried to polarise the conflict between the west and Islam, focusing especially on the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. A senior aide to Mr Blair conceded that the broadcast had found a receptive audience in the Middle East.

The west's biggest worry is the dangerous schism between Arab leaders, who basically support the west and are appalled by Bin Laden, and sections of their people to whom he has become a potent symbol of defiance.

Acknowledging this, Mr Blair said: "All moderate, sensible parts of Arab opinion know that it is right that we are acting in Afghanistan and support that. But they do point out to us that they have a general problem with their own people, that we have lost interest in the peace process. It is a perception we need to counter."

In a series of interviews in the region and a signed article offered to Arab newspapers - all part of Downing Street's new battle for public opinion - Mr Blair stressed the urgent need to "convince people that we are sincere in our desire" to get the Middle East peace process back on track. Central to that is the new US thinking, which Saudi Arabia and Egypt are enthusiastically backing. It is based on proposals on the table when the Israelis and Palestinians met in January at Taba in Egypt, the closest they have ever come to agreement. It envisages Jerusalem as the shared capital of Jewish and Palestinian states.

The ideas, which were to be announced in a speech by the US secretary of state, Colin Powell, that was postponed because of the September 11 attack, are expected be revealed formally later this month.

Leaks in the American and Israeli press are causing tremors of nervousness around Mr Sharon, even though US diplomats say the proposals could change before they are publicly aired. "This government is not going to divide Jerusalem. Period," Mr Sharon's spokesman Raanan Gissin said. "Jerusalem will remain the capital of the Jewish people."

Mr Sharon will visit Washington next month to press his case, Israel Radio reported yesterday. He is known to be angry that Mr Powell consulted Saudi Arabia and Egypt but not Israel when he drafted his speech.

Palestinian officials lauded the idea of a "viable homeland" - seen as an improvement on Mr Bush's call for a Palestinian state.

Revealing the nervousness of Arab governments, it emerged yesterday that a tentative plan to include Saudi Arabia on Mr Blair's Middle East itinerary was scrapped at the last minute.

The Saudi government is fearful of Islamic fundamentalist opinion in the kingdom. The London paper Asharq al-Awsat quoted "informed sources" in London as saying the kingdom told Mr Blair that it could not receive him because the leadership was sensitive about its role and position in the Islamic world.

Downing Street played it down, insisting that the visit was not logistically possible.

People are tired of Israel and its inability to act in concert with its neighbors. It is a bully state and for a people that know persecution, they act in hellish ways that bring disgrace and dishonor to western values. You would expect some example of human decency from those people. Instead, just baseness and betrayal.

Whereas the Palestinians are the Lambs of Christ, good decent folk, who are full of love and joy, and are virtual paragons of virtue.

God, your hypocracy is sickening to the extreme! You are just projecting the truth about the Palestinians onto the Israeli's. Classic Freudian tactic.

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The Creator gave us the Holy Land thousands of years ago. Yet, when we sinned, He took it away and sent us into exile. Since that time our task is to wait for Him to send the Messiah. At that time, the Creator alone, without any human being lifting a hand or saying a word, will bring us together and take us out of exile. He will likewise establish universal peace among all mankind and all will serve Him in good will.

Some religious Jews, confused by Zionist propaganda quote Biblical verses that state that G-d gave the children of Israel the Holy Land. They overlook, unfortunately, those verses that say He took it away due to our sins. They further ignore those prophecies which explicitly describe the last exile's conclusion in as a Divine, not a human process.

The Creator has commanded every Jew to follow ways of peace and to be loyal to the country where he lives.

Torah true Jewry waits patiently for the Messianic redemption. They have nothing to do with any kind of pseudo "Jewish State" and its aggressions against other peoples. They have a deep sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians who have suffered the most from Zionism's false teachings and barbaric actions. The Zionist state is not a Jewish state. The Zionists alone are the only ones responsible for their actions. Authentic Jewry has and will continue to oppose the very existence of this blasphemous state.

May all mankind witness the true redemption.

Once again, I repeat: This changes nothing. As a secular issue, the Jews still deserve their own homeland. If I thought that giving the Palestinians their own homeland, and setting Israel back to it's pre-1968 borders would fix the issue, I'd be all for that. However, it won't. The Palestinians don't want to co-exist with Israel. They want to DESTROY Israel. Completely. Wiped off the face of the earth. And if they change their minds, there are plenty of other Arab countries who will take up the cause.

Barak gave them some great compromises last year, and when Arafats bluff was called, he panicked and went to war all over again.

The British controlled that land. They gave some of it to the Jews, and offered to give some of it to the Palestinians. They declined in favor of trying to destroy the Jews completely. It seems to me that what additional lands the Jews took, they took during wars that THEY didn't ask for. Arabs have tried to destroy the Jews, again and again, even attacking on their highest holy days (The Yom Kippur War...)

Now yes, The Israeli's have done some pretty harsh things over the past half-century. However, in the end, they are FAR more civil and honorable than the Pallys. When the Pallys suicide bomb a pizza place and a disco, the Israeli's will CALL, three hours ahead, tell civilians to leave a target, and then attack. When American civilians die, Israel offers it support, and the Palestinians sing and dance in the streets. I'm supposed to feel SORRY for these people?

Sorry Fred, but it sounds like you are just pissed off at your bitchy ex-mother-in-law and you've been taking your pain and hurt out on Israel ever since. I'm not accusing you of being anti-Semetic, just blindly Anti-Israeli.

With that said, I still hold out hope that this situation can be resolved with both sides reaching an agreement. I just don't see at this point how creating a New Palestine will solve the issue. Just like Osama Bin Laden, they will find new reasons to hate the Jews, and call for Israel's destruction...

The quote I cited was from the Gospel of John, and had nothing to do with the writings of Paul. Specifically, John 14:

1 "Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way where I am going." 5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?" 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

If you elect to dismiss the Gospel of John as "hearsay," then you dismiss the entire Gospel as "hearsay," and your opinions on the alleged "teachings" of the "devout Rabbi" (and nothing more) Yeshua Ben Joseph are utterly baseless, in that no other written account exists. He wrote no texts.

Again I say, correctly, that a question was posited, and I answered it - correctly. Not "my way," but the only way it could possibly be answered on the basis of any evidence whatsoever. What you dismiss as "hearsay" would actually be admissable as "eyewitness testimony" in a court of law - and such testimony is, every single day, in every single court of law in the world. Your tangent on the origin of Paul's writings (which are not the Gospels), however, would be dismissed as "irrelevant," at least to the issue of debate.

Gee isn't it interesting..... The same liberals who insist that the US ignore it's vital interests to "engage" the Chinese because they represent 1/4 of humanity (1 billion Chinese in PRC) want us to ignore different 1/4 of humanity (1 billion Muslims world wide)who happen to control 1/2 the worlds energy supply because it "offends" the sensibilities of 6 million Israeli's. Can't we all just get along? The US should only act in the our own interest. Instead of aid to Israel I am in favor of them paying tribute to the US.

You are so woefully ignorant that you are an embarassment to this forum.

First, check your history. We did not save the Jews of Europe. Most of them died. When we had the chance to bomb the rail lines, we didn't. When a boatload of refugees came here, Roosevelt shipped them back. We knew what was happening to the Jews, but that wasn't why we fought.

Second, the Jews did not steal that land. Most of it was paid for. Check the records. Regarding the mandate that was given to the Jews, Jews purchased more than 460,000 acres of land between 1880-1947 from the Arab landowners. The Catholic church donated some land as well, as did the British government. What land they didn't purchase from the Arabs constituted primarily the Negev Desert, which was and still is uninhabited, and some densely populated areas which is not the same as "taking" their land, since the Arab owners still owned the land, only the sovereignty of the nation changed over to the Jews from the British. But if you knew much about the pre-state mandate, you would know that the Jews were never safe from murderous Islamic fanatics even decades before Israel came to be and the brutal way in which the Jews were treated by both the British and the Arabs only hastened the desire of the Jews living there to declare their independence.

Finally, don't be foolish about our own history. One the one hand you exaggerate what the Jews did, and on the other you try to minimize the American experience. We kicked the Native Americans off far more land, and for much less important reasons than agriculture or housing. We did it for gold, for oil, and because we thought they were dangerous savages. The Jews in 1948 declared that they wanted the Arabs to stay in Israel and help build a nation. The next day the Arabs invaded. Palestinians fled on the assurances of the Arabs armies that they would defeat the Jewish state and allow them to return. That war has been raging now for 53 years. It's time for the Arabs, and you, to make peace with the Jews, or forever remain the anacronism you are.

It's time for the Arabs, and you, to make peace with the Jews

I don’t have any problem with “the Jews”. The “Jews” of the world are not the same as “the Zionists”. There are Zionists here who aren’t even Jews. Stop trying to spread old Zionist propaganda. I’ve got Jewish friends who aren’t Zionists, and I do business with Jewish people, and I don’t know whether they are Zionists or not. That’s not something we talk about. When I meet with them, we are all Americans. I repeat, the Zionists here on this board and in other places are trying to co-opt the WTC tragedy for their own selfish propaganda purposes. I resent that, and so do other people here.

Fred, people have had quite enough of your blantant anti-semitism.

Oh, nonsense. I’m not anti-Semitic and you know it. I’ve posted links to several Jewish anti-Zionist websites, and that makes you so mad.

Here’s another one......