Posted on 10/11/2001 6:35:00 PM PDT by vannrox
Edited on 05/07/2004 8:12:56 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
No. And the overwhelming percentage of Arabic foreign nationals in the U.S. are here for legitimate reasons and have absolutely connection to or knowledge of those terrorists. Do you deny that?
And if not, then what do you propose to do about it?
The terrorists cannot do very much unless they are have foreign countries in which to base their operations, and foreign governments who are willing to finance and support them. I propose that we invade those countries, one by one, revoke their sovereignty, and place them under long-term American military custodianship. We civilized Japan that way. It does work.
No chance. Since I am of German descent, the Travis McGees would have put me in a concentration camp. Barring an Endlösung, that is.
That you choose security over liberty.
No. Who cares? We're at war. They have no Constitutional right to be here.
"The terrorists cannot do very much unless they are have foreign countries in which to base their operations, and foreign governments who are willing to finance and support them. I propose that we invade those countries, one by one, revoke their sovereignty, and place them under long-term American military custodianship."
I'm all for toppling those overwhelmingly Arabic regimes that foment terrorism against us. And taking them on one by one might be the most sound military strategy, there are pros and cons both ways.
But...
What do you propose we do about Arab fifth columnists who are here and fully operational now?
I'm of German descent, and your comments here are another straw man.
Not at all, they point out an important flaw in Travis McGee's thinking. If he's willing to "clear the forest" of Arabs in this country, how would he have combatted the German terrorism he presented to us? How would his strategy have worked? It's not entirely a hypothetical, either; there were plenty of German spies in the U.S. at the time.
Yet another straw man. Travis was specific about clearing out Arab NON-CITIZENS, as am I.
Meanwhile, your smokescreen to continue begging the question as to what you would do about the Arab fifth column now continues.
I would do it the way it's being done now. When laws are broken, you track down those responsible, directly or indirectly. They've arrested hundreds of people in the wake of the Sept. 11th attacks. Does that mean there will still be bad guys out there you don't catch? Yes. In the same way there are those who will commit murder tomorrow, but who can't be arrested today because they've committed no crime yet.
It certainly is true that foreign nationals don't have a Constitutional right to be here. (I expect the Supremes might even disagree with that, but we talk original intent here on FR.) But the presence of foreign nationals here in the U.S. serves the purposes of the country. There, I said it. We are, on the whole, better off because we allow foreign nationals to be here. And I don't except Sept. 11th in the calculation, either; don't forget that many of the innocent people who were murdered were foreign nationals themselves.
Besides the deleterious effects to our nation, I do not believe that a large reduction in foreign nationals in the U.S. would significantly reduce the risk of terrorism. It would serve only to satisfy the xenophobic urges of some Americans. That's the sum total of the benefit to the U.S.
Read post #60 by Travis in its entirety, and tell me he wasn't hinting at going beyond that.
You can answer my #61 if you care to, too.
C'mon, Physicist. I was talking specifically about ARAB foriegn nationals. I want to deport ARAB foriegn nationals. Not all of them.
Why do you continue to fail to adress this point?
The best reason ever advanced for racial profiling.
Read post #60 by Travis in its entirety, and tell me he wasn't hinting at going beyond that.
You can answer my #61 if you care to, too.
In #60, Travis wrote:
"If a "hyper 9-11 event" occurs, such as a suitcase nuke going off in an American city, and AGAIN the trail leads directly through the "moderate islamic community", then far more draconian methods will be used. I don't advocate this, I am trying to make you aware of the "facts of life" of national survival.
Did you catch that. P? He said "I don't advocate this." You even quoted that phrase in #61. But now you claim that he's hinting that he does?
What Travis is correctly pointing out, is that your lackluster approach to the Arab fifth column now will make future terrorist events more likely, and possibly far more lethal than those of 9/11. And the consequences of that ill-considered approach would then make life more dangerous even for American citizens of Arabic heritage.
Deporting Arab non-citizens NOW (my proposal), will lessen, though not eliminate, the threat of fifth column terror in the future.
In answer to your question of #61: "Would you take up arms alonside me, and defend the Constitution (that is to say, our nation) against those who would institute "far more draconian measures" against American citizens?" My answer is yes, if it came to that, I probably would.
It would depend on some of the circumstances. If say, a few suitcase nukes went off, and more appeared imminent, and martial law were declared, I might have to qualify that.
Wouldn't you?
yep from another of German desent,I agree with you
Underline the second part of what he boldface. He's saying, "I wouldn't like this, but it's the way it would have to be." It's the old "this hurts me more than it hurts you" that a parent recites as he reaches for the switch.
What Travis is correctly pointing out, is that your lackluster approach to the Arab fifth column now will make future terrorist events more likely,
By that you mean "Bush's lackluster approach". He's doing it right, IMHO.
My answer is yes, if it came to that, I probably would.
I'm heartily glad to hear it. The first line of defense is FR; please do your part and flame any ersatz Freepers you see advocating internment.
I might have to qualify that. Wouldn't you?
No. Constitution first, life second.
Whereas the bravest Americans go under names like Anonymous2, no doubt.
Why make things up? Why not quote him directly? Here, once again, you display your penchant for the straw man.
"By that you mean "Bush's lackluster approach". He's doing it right, IMHO."
I think in the failure to deport illegal aliens in general, and now Arab non-citizens, Bush has been remiss.
"Constitution first, life second."
I'm a very strict constructionist, but this is WAY oversimplified.
Do members of the Armed Forces have full Constitutional prerogatives?
And in time of war or national emergency, do citizens always have the same Constitutional Rights they enjoy during peacetime?
I live in L.A. When a curfew was imposed after the '92 Rodney King Riots, Constitutional Rights of law-abiding citizens were temporarily affected. Should I have taken up arms against the National Guaurd then?
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