Posted on 10/09/2001 12:20:12 PM PDT by malakhi
Like your defining doctrine is anti-anything not Roman Catholic. Next time you go to finishing school could it be somewhere other than on a pirate ship?
Why didn't I think of that? The pressure is on.
Did you read al_c's post today,it seems to touch on a couple of your points and illuminates them. Thanks for your thoughts.
It is disingenuous to tell everyone they need to read a book to understand the way you think, we proddies have the Bible to refer to, we rarely ever suggest you read protestant books, and I know what you would say if we did. Just who is this guy, what is his background? He is another Catholic basher, and on and on.
You doubt that there are or were, nay even would be possible, for a person gifted with the Holy Spirit to find a place in the Church.
This is tremendously ignorant.
I did not say that that none of these gifts are present in the Catholic Church, just that there are so many more that are available in other Churches.
From Act's to Jude, there are over 200 results from having the Holy Spirit listed, fruits if you may, and it is obvious that God did not intend all of these to be from one part of the body of Christ, can you picture them all coming from one arm, or a foot, and that is what Christ told us, that the Church is a BODY, and we are all parts of that body, you can choose any part of that body you want to be, but Christ still considers all the other parts equally important.
Boy Becky, ....if taking a little time off brings you to these truths, maybe we should talk to Big Mack and see if we can't work something out on a weekly or semi weekly restriction from the threads.(((((grin)))))
You know I am kidding of course, remember, it was me who got you back on after you tried to put that dumb horse ahead of us... ;-) more((((wink))))
No? Post 75. This very same thread.
What do you think Paul was telling us when he talked about the gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor 12, Besides these many different gifts, the Gospel mentions over 200 gifts as fruits of the Holy Spirit from prophesy to wisdom, knowledge, judging, searching all things, teaching, comparing spiritual to spiritual, faith, the working of miracles, healing, tongues, edifying, and on and on, are you saying that God meant for only you to have all these gifts? There is no place in your Church for someone who Christ had given these gifts to.
SD
I'm sorry. God gave me an intellect and it is not against his will or doing the work of Satan to try to understand as best we can the meaning of revelation. I hardly think asking folks if they think Jesus is God is opening the door for Satan.
The other night my husband and I were discussing the topic on the threads of that day, and I told him what I tried to say here that day. That some of the questions being asked here were not good. God never intended to have to prove himself or his word to the degree the questions implyed. He doesn't need to!
We're not trying to "prove" His Word is true, we are trying to understand what His True Word means. You still don't get it. I believe the Bible is true, God inspired, perfect, etc. I just don't believe it says everything that you think it says, and vice versa. It is not doubting God or His Bible to ask what it all means.
How would you feel when you daughter grows up and she starts questioning you about the athenticity of you being her father? Of course now a days we have DNA, but would it not hurt to have to go to those exteremes to prove to her that you are truly her father. Don't you believe she should just trust your word, because of the years you spent never lying to her, always doing exactly what you said you would for her, and so on.
Asking people if they think Jesus is God is analogous to denying the Father? Asking questions about what the Bible means is denying God?
Do you see what I am driving at. These questions are taking us down roads that beleivers should not go down.
I truly understand what you are saying. And there is something to be said for those who don't wish to examine their beliefs, hold them up to the light of truth, scrutanize them with reason. For fear of being contradicted.
I don't have that fear. My God created me with a free will and an intellect. Faith and reason are not opposites. Starting with a belief grounded in revelation, we can use logic to derive other truths. Truth is true, and God is the author of all that is Good and Beautiful and True. I am not afraid of these things.
Saying there are questions believers should not ask is admitting to a weakness in God, a line of questioning, a logical process which He can not endure. Or you can not resist, anyway.
SD
Dave ... is the sky blue ... yes or no?
No. It just appears blue. Lightwaves passing through the atmosphere being bent, etc.
And what do you mean by "blue" anyway? How do we know that what I see as "blue" is the same color you see as "blue." And how do we know that our perception is actually of existing external objects and isn't just an elaborate mind show put on by my neurons...
(Sometimes I think too much.)
SD
No, I don't think I said that I didn't believe in the development of doctrine. I said that no pride can be taken from the development of doctrine. The guys who affirmed the Trinity don't get a gold star or a special place in Heaven (at least, no more special than any one else's) simply because they recognized God was Triune. I was trying to answer someone's claim that Proddies took pride in developing doctrine.
BTW, going down throught the thread I saw you posted Heb. 4:16 to Pelayo before I did. Funny he.s not come back with a response:)
Becky
Glad to be of service. I have no problem with Scripture being appealed to as an authority. As long as Scripture is properly understood. That's the bugaboo. Scripture does not interpret itself.
Augustine telling us to listen to Scripture above that of a Catholic bishop is for the case when the bishops are in error. Yes, it is possible, only the aggregate of all of the Bishops, led by the Pope is guaranteed to teach infalibly.
SD
The presence of God is felt when we allow our "self" to get out of the way, when we are aware that what our thoughts are not our self, and that consciousness which observes this is aware of the presence of God, through it's connection with Self - the communion or union with God through our finite consciousness connecting with the infinite.
Actually, this doesn't sound to me like the one I was after, but it DID have to do with the Scriptures having final authoity. Maybe this IS it and it just struck me differently the first time I read it. Thanks.
I can just feel the "Christian" love in every word you write. I just want to point out that I sincerely hope that you and other neo-Christians attain salvation. You seem to take some measure of pleasure in what you consider my ultimate doom.
Does the bible not say that Jesus is God. Why ask? Asking is a mere human, or trusting the fact becasue a man said it was, is denying the Father in one sense.
Asking questions about what the Bible means is denying God?
The bible tells us that the Holy Spirit will teach us all things. Why ask? Asking is denying God, it's trusting what another mans says rather then what God says.
I do not believe these things becasue a man told me about them. I believe becasue God proved himself to me to be truth when I read the bible and trusted him to teach me what I needed to know. And He still teaches me evertime I open the bible and trust him too.
Becky
First of all, I do not ask because I don't know the answer. I ask because I want to see what answers I get from the other folks. You know. The folks here relying on the Holy Spirit to personally deliver them to all truth. I find there answers and methodologies interesting. Don't you?
The bible tells us that the Holy Spirit will teach us all things. Why ask? Asking is denying God, it's trusting what another mans says rather then what God says.
Why ask? It facilitates our discussion here. If nobody asked questions and compared answers we would just be yelling at each other.
Secondly, you seem to be denying completely the quite Scriptural charge to teach all nations. Not just give them a book, but teach them. How can we teach if we don't ask questions and try to give answers?
I do not believe these things becasue a man told me about them. I believe becasue God proved himself to me to be truth when I read the bible and trusted him to teach me what I needed to know. And He still teaches me evertime I open the bible and trust him too.
Oh really? Big Mack never set down with the Bible and tried to show you the truth? (Or you, him.) You never look in other books, listen to your pastor, read a concordance, listen or watch religious programs?
Most people I know form their basic ideas about God from interaction with the members of his body. You know, asking questions and such. Even the difficult ones.
SD
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