Italy Plane Crash: '100 Dead' -- Breaking -- Update

Sky News -- Great Britain ^ | October 8, 2001 | Sky News Staff

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I've noticed that when someone speaks calmly on this forum, people tend to listen (even if it's something ridiculous they're hearing).

Likewise, if someone shouts, others quickly tune out (no matter what truth or logic is being offered). I suppose that's human nature.

I, for one, feel like we're all living in some John Carpenter movie. We must stay calm for our children's sake and for the work ahead. But you made plenty of sense to me.

Exercise caution; pray; and pray some more.

[Allegra]

People, OUR AIRPORTS ARE UNSAFE. YOU SHOULD BE SCARED TO DEATH TO FLY.

Well, I'm not. I'll even fly into Reagan Airport at Christmas if I can get a decent price. I have family in that area. If I'm afraid to do this, the Taliban wins.

[max epr]

Re: #37. Let's see, a German light plane and a Scandanavian airliner and you couldn't wait to insult Italians. This was inevitable and predictable.

[Criminal Number 18F]

Why am I trying to get the truth out?

Well, at minimum you are a fool. You are doing the work of the terrorists in spreading panic and terror. Here are some facts, which are available to those of us that seek them.

1. Cessnas come in all sizes from my little 152 to the six-seat 210 to twin engine commuter planes, turboprop freighters that are used by FEDEX among others, and a line of very popular jets called Citations. Educate yourself.
2. Airplanes are lightly built, compared to cars, with which you are probably more familiar; and they take off and land at higher speeds. The smallest Cessna lifts off at about 55 knots, or around 60 miles an hour. It approaches to land at 65 knots, more or less. In a jet airliner tthese numbers are in the 125 to 150 knot area. The Concorde was destroyed when it hit a small strip of aluminium or titanium that only weighed a couple of ounces. Even the smallest Cessna weighs 1,670 lbs, 78 lbs of which is 100 octane gasoline. Hit that at 125 knots and a lot of kinetic energy is going to destroy things.
3. Runway incursions are common. How common?
   • On December 3, 1990, a combination of crew and controller errors and dense, sticky fog led to two Northwest Airlines jets colliding on a runway in Detroit. Due to last minute evasive action, only eight people died.
   • One dark night in 1991 an affirmative-action-hire controller messed up and instructed a USAir jet to land on a runway she had already parked a commuter plane on. 34 died, but you'll be glad to know that nothing happened to the controller and she's still making these life and death calls for FAA. By the way, 11 of the dead were lined up inside the jet, overcome while waiting to get out the overwing exits. The exits took some time because of the panic of a passenger. People who panic really bug me. Please stop panicking.
   • Here's a 1993 near-collision between two passenger jets.
   • An overloaded controller tried to put American and Lone Star airliners on the same runway in 1995; blind luck saved hundreds of lives.
   • A cropduster pranged when a truck bungled onto the runway in 1999.
   • In March, 2000, a controller sent two Cesssnas onto the same runway at the same time. Kaboom. Four dead. The controller in question went undisciplined by FAA and she is still controlling planes small and large.
   • A near collision between two packed passenger jets two months ago.
   This isn't all of them. You can check yourself at the National Transportation Safety Board which investigates accidents in the USA. You might want to check out the FAA and ALPA and APA (last two are pilot's unions) to see what they say about runway incursions.
4. Scientific people rely on a principle called "Occam's Razor" which is: when multiple explanations are possible, the simplest is usually best. A good corrolary to that is that the answer that accounts for events without requiring a massive conspiracy is more likely than the feverish, incoherent explanation that fantasizes a conspiracy where none is proven.

I doubt you are actually an Arab disruptor. If you are, your turban is on way too tight and it's making you ineffective. If not, chill out. This crash will be investigated. If there is proof of conspiracy we will all know very soon. Look how quickly the nations of the world built a case against Dustbin Laden and Ashcanistan.

Have a little faith in the pros that are looking out for your interests. The adults are in charge in Washington.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F (and I didn't even mention Tenerife!)

[Sveedish]

Good deal. Leave it to the Italian Air Traffic Controllers to allow an accident like this to happen. Heavy fog? Close the friggin' airport. Now can you USA people ask Bush to bomb the Italians for us Swedes?

[Silas]

This crash will be investigated. If there is proof of conspiracy we will all know very soon.....

Have a little faith in the pros that are looking out for your interests.

And you call yourself a Freeper? Man, those guys programmed you pretty good. Don't ask too many questions now, the authorities are in charge. They will tell us the complete truth after a prompt, full investigation. Are you for real?

[dighton]

The airliner was taxiing for take-off ...

That's wrong, which caused some confusion. The SAS jet was taking off.

Click on map for Aviation Safety Net's brief accident description.

[dighton]

What's your friggin' problem?

[max epr]

Re: #10. The Italian ground controllers didn't clear the Cessna to cross the runway. Look at the airport plan. The German Cessna drivers turned south out of the general aviation area instead of north. They screwed the pooch. Ground controllers in the tower couldn't see the aircraft because of the heavy fog. I know you're looking to blame the Italians for this (it certainly fits in with the mentality here) but it won't work.

[max epr]

Re: #45. What astounding ignorance! Airports are closed when the runway visibility is below legal minimums for takeoff and/or landing. If airports are closed everytime visibility is restricted there would hardly be any flying at all. Look at the preliminary accident description and even you can see that the pilots of the German Citation made a wrong turn out of their parking area which was not visible to the controllers. That condition occurs at many airports. Of course the facts don't jibe with your prejudice but at least it gives you an opportunity to expose yourself.

[snopercod]

Thanks for the information. I wasn't looking to blame any particular group or person, just stating some possibilities. FReegards--

[Silas]

Are you sheeple starting to get it yet?

Are you starting to WAKE UP???? ARE YOU STARTING TO THINK FOR YOURSELVES AND AT LEAST TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH FROM THE LIES???

[dighton]

OK, Silas, you already failed Tenerife (#26 & 28). Next question: AA 191 -- accident description and analysis. Unrelated bonus question: what is FOD?

PS -- Save the "sheeple"-ing and SHOUTING for someone else.

MindBender, this may amuse you. Silas here is a "verdict before evidence" kinda guy.

[MindBender26]

AA 191, DL 192, u,mmmm (covered that one.)

I will never get on UA 193!

Let's see FOD, I give up. I could try to quiet my mind by walking a deserted runway for hours and not get it. The problem is, Silas is probably some foreign guy trying to damage my reputation by making me the object of his jokes!!!

PS: Never argue with a Whacko. They never get it!!!

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

Thank you for posting this. I hadn't heard about it.

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

Other than Sky News, I can't find this report anywhere, not even on the BBC. Does anyone know of a good news site that would incorporate this type of news into its site?

[RetiredArmy]

That's it. I am on a train or in a car from now on. No more flying. I walked away from a chopper crash in Nam. But, thankfully it was only up a few feet when the hydrolics let go. I ain't gonna fall from 33,000!