[Bush2000]

Beirut, (with our fleet anchored within rifleshot), was a pimple on Afghanistan's camel, and we know how Beirut turned out. And Somalia later. Great intentions are not worth crap in the middle east.

Nonsense, we're not trying to occupy Afghanistan in the same manner that we occupied Beirut. Bush wants to hit Bin Laden and the Taliban hard and get the hell out. This is the right strategy. Practically every conflict where we've had a peacekeeping role has turned to sh*t. And mostly because our Democratic Commander-in-Chiefs didn't have the balls to go the distance (except Truman).

[AndyJackson]

Rule number 1. Don't argue with Travis about this. He's been there and done that.

Rule number 2. Get real. Special forces are still flesh and blood, more or less members of the human race. They are the best in the world at what they do, but they don't take down 18,000 foot mountains with one hand tied behind their backs.

If Bin Laden holes up in a cave, we can detonate enough rock and dirt to bury him forever.

Rule number 3. An 18,000 ft mountain is big - real big. A nuclear weapon will only make a dent in the side of it. All the high explosives in the world will just make a bit more rubble to bounce down the sides.

Bin Laden ain't safe. But he ain't exactly caught yet either.

[Travis McGee]

We were not tryig to "occupy" Beirut or Mogadishu either. In Mogadishu, we were just trying to snatch Aidid's officers, THREE MILES from the Ranger/Delta compound, not 800 miles from our fleet assets.

Look, I was a specoops officer, I just am tired of the gung ho "Hoo-Ah" from folks who have NO CLUE of how comlex and difficult this might be if Osama does a good and unpredictable job of hiding with a tiny band (under 20 total) in the wilds of the Hindu Kush in one of his many prepared secret hideouts.

[jammer]

Bush wants to hit Bin Laden and the Taliban hard and get the hell out.

Well, of course. We all want that. What (if I may be so bold to interpret for him) Travis McGee is saying is that it will not be easy. The FDNY heroes are only the first of many, many heroes that we will see die. Do not underestimate the enemy. We may not want to occupy, and we may be lucky enough to not have to, but it is a possibility.

Let's wipe out our problem. We cannot just wound the tiger like we did in Iraq. We have to kill it!