Muslim blames US at Chicago's Largest Church (BARF)

Those who unflinching stare the reality of Islam in the face are racists? Those who are too well aware of the historical facts about the spread of Islam through murderous wars on every continent without end are racists? Those who point out the teachings of this manmade religion are racists? Those who choose not to bury their heads in the sand preparing to "submit" are racists?

Those who choose not to ignore the murders of thousands of Christians of every color in every continent by these killers are racists?

I don't think so.

Why don't you read a little history or check out the current happenings around the world before you make yourself look even more like an idiot? It isn't hard to find the evidence of the work of the killers if you care to look.

Brainwashed my ass.

Absolutely correct. Mad Mo spewed forth his bilge under some form of demonic possession or epileptic fit.

Good source of "divine" revelation, eh?

This is an e-mail I have sent to several family members, as well as Oprah Winfrey (she did a show Friday):

Some quotes that may inspire you to read the rest of this text, taken from the same place as these translations are found:

" Of all the conspiracies hatched against Islam in modern times, the most dangerous is a false claim to Prophethood made in the beginning of this century. This claim has been the main cause of wide spread mental chaos amongst the Ummah for the last sixty years. Like all other schisms, the root cause of this mischief is that the Muslims are generally ignorant of their religion."

" The Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: "God has bestowed upon me six favors which the former Prophets did not enjoy:
I have been endowed with the gift of pithy and perfect speech.
I was granted victory owing to my awe.
The spoils of war were made lawful unto me.
The whole earth has been made the place of worship for me and it has become the means of purification for me also. In other words in my religion, offering of prayers is not confined to certain specified places of worship. Prayers can be offered at any place over the earth. And in case water is not available it is lawful for my people to perform ablutions with earth(Tayammum) and to cleanse themselves with the soil if water for bathing is scarce.
I have been sent by Allah to carry His Divine message to the whole world.
And the line of prophets has come to its final end in me."

"Allama Zamakhshri (467 A.H.-538 A.H) writes in his commentary entitled Kashshaaf, "If you ask how Muhammad can be the last of the Prophets when Hadrat `Isa (Jesus Christ) will appear towards the end of the world? I shall reply that the finality of Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH) means that no one will be endowed with prophethood after him. Hadrat 'Isa is among those upon whom prophethood was endowed before Muhammad(PBUH). Moreover, Hadrat 'Isa will appear as a follower of Muhammad and he will offer prayers with his face towards the Qiblah of Islam, as a member of the community of the Muslims." (Vol. 2, p. 215)"

Jesus- just a prophet.

Now, onto the teachings that all good muslims should be knowledgeable about (remember the first quote):

Three tranlations. Keep in mind to whom the book is written.

Surah

Chapter 4

4:29

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Squander not your wealth among yourselves in vanity, except it be a trade by mutual consent, and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not devour your property among yourselves falsely, except that it be trading by your mutual consent; and do not kill your people; surely Allah is Merciful to you.

Chapter 5

5:33

YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
PICKTHAL: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
SHAKIR: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

5:34

YUSUFALI: Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: Except those who repent before you have them in your power; so know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Chapter 9

9:5

YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:73

YUSUFALI: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

People who blame every follower of a religion for the actions of a few are misguided.

More "itching ears" wanting to hear a fanciful message.

Check out the sermon we heard at our small non-denominational church just a few miles away this past Sunday. The title is, "The Nations in the Valley of Decision".

Yes, this is the same church and same pastor who invited The Face Biting Rapist to speak. Enough said.

Christians and Muslims can be friends, only on Muslims terms.

That was the very impression I got from OBL's speech yesterday.

I Repeat: I am Rogmonster's wife - and I have never posted before but your posting regarding WillowCreek stirred up too many emotions for me to ignore. I'm not surprised at what happened last night at Willow. It is just another example of the PC environment that Hybels created when he chose to have a personal relationship with Bill Clinton. It was the beginning of the end -- and I don't know if Hybels has figured out what has happened to him or not. The church boasts a congregation of 4,000 + (based on members) - and weekend services that bring in 12,000 + - but I question if they have ever calculated the turnover rate of those who walk in the front door and exit out the back without ever a comment to the "people up stairs." Unfortunately, as with most things, it is the power that has corrupted Willow. Its aim and goal was innocent, but its success has destroyed it, and unfortunately not enough people notice. Instead, like me and the Rogmonster, we simply walk out one day and don't return. Hybels in his heart thought he was doing the right thing. Unforunately, Hybels has determined that what Hybels decides is the right thing means it is a message from God. Too many common threads run through the prayers that the terrorists verbalized, such as God open all doors, and the prayers that are often verbalized by Hybels. I hope that someday he will realize that it is absolute power that has corrupted so absolutely the church that he heads.......

#164: "People who blame every follower of a religion for the actions of a few are misguided."

In like manner one would be misguided if he/she blamed *every follower* of a political party for the actions of a few.

For instance, there are three catagories of mentalities that make up *the base* of the DemocRAT party:

[1] Cynical opportunists
[2] Useful idiots (FROGS/Sheeple)
[3] Garden variety opportunistic useful idiots

Of course some useful idiots are willingly ignorant and uninformed, and others have a legitimate use for being that way.

Emotional immaturity will ALWAYS be a fact of life.

It becomes a major problem, though, when adults don't evidence much progress in growing out of it.

Correction to #171. This sentence should have been written:

"Of course some useful idiots are willingly ignorant and uninformed, and others have a legitimate excuse for being that way."

BTTT

Dengar01, were you able to obtain a tape of the program? If so, is it posted on your site? What is your site's URL?

I'm going to try to call the bookstore and get a copy

I will be happy when the great mass of moslems rise up and destroy the influence of that few who are killing across the world i.e. those few in Sudan, Somolia, Algeria, Eygpt, philippines, indonesia, malaysia, afganistan, India, Pakistan.

When those peaceful loving moslems reject the portions of their "Holy" scriptures which call for death to the unbelievers and taxation and humilation of the People of the Book then I will change my opinion that the religion is an evil concoction of an evil man.

I will change my opinion that it was concocted to destroy the Christian religion and exclude it from the lands of Islam. I will even overlook 1300 years of murder, war and rapine spread in the name of and with the blessings of "The Prophet." I will cease to believe it to be the religion of the Anti-Christ.

I will be happy when the great mass of moslems rise up and destroy the influence of that few who are killing across the world i.e. those few in Sudan, Somolia, Algeria, Eygpt, philippines, indonesia, malaysia, afganistan, India, Pakistan.

When those peaceful loving moslems reject the portions of their "Holy" scriptures which call for death to the unbelievers and taxation and humilation of the People of the Book then I will change my opinion that the religion is an evil concoction of an evil man.

I will change my opinion that it was concocted to destroy the Christian religion and exclude it from the lands of Islam. I will even overlook 1300 years of murder, war and rapine spread in the name of and with the blessings of "The Prophet." I will cease to believe it to be the religion of the Anti-Christ.

Muhammed (pees be upon him) was a 7th century Charles Manson. The question is what to do to control Mu-Mu's "family" in the 21st century.

Why do you feel that Saddleback is not of God? I've been a member of Saddleback Valley Community Church (its official name. The church is a member of the Southern Baptists) and very active in the church for some time. If there is something specific that you would like to know regarding the church, its beliefs, policies, etc., please let me know. I would be happy to give you an honest answer. I can tell you that this is a God-fearing church that has reached thousands and thousands of people who might not have been reached by other Christian churches. But this church is not for everybody. Nor is your church for everybody. The Lord loves variety and He has made us all different with different needs and likes. Before judging any church, I suggest that you attend a service and see for yourself.

Hi..I have no doubt that there are good people and saved people at Saddleback..but I have read all the material for the Discipleship program (I have even edited some of it)I have read Ricks book.In fact I have been asked to oversee the mechanics of the operation of the program at my current church.

I have a basic problem with manipulation to build the church It is the Church of Jesus Christ..it is not a new fast food drive thru

.I do not believe that targeted church growth is of God..It is like you can sell Jesus,using the right ingredients of demographics,and planning.

I differ with the premesis that Jesus "selected" His audience..after all He only had 12 "members"Numbers were not his aim..In Acts we see the offer of the gospel to any that would hear..not to just to Saddleback Sam and family.

After reading and reviewing the material I had found it to be a church built to grow..not necessarily to feed and challange . Messages are "life application" rather than strong scripitual teaching. It is Southern Baptist lite I do think.

I read one of Ricks sermons after the WTC..I posted it for another freeper..it was purposed to make the hearers and readers feel good..

Please understand..I make no judgement on the faith or salvation of individual Saddleback members..God will move in the hearts and minds of people ,sometimes inspite of our churches.

My church is going to the Saddleback method,and I am frightened. I came out of a mega church before this one and I know what a message written to preserve and build membership sounds like,and I know what the word of God sounds like.My church will be more like yours in a short time and I will once again be looking for a church that preaches the uncompromised gospel. (last week the most spiritual "thing" about my week end was a freeper discussion on Baptism..that ended up being a large part of the womans Sunday School class...as you can see we have already moved into the life application/seeker friendly part of the program)

I have family members that choose a mega church because of the programs and facilities..I wonder what drew the early Church members and marytrs?

God Bless and keep you,and I hope that you are hearing the word of God preached without concern for the size of the church.everything that Scripture holds does not make us feel good..(I am no fan of Robert Schuler*grin*)

bump

He declared that the terrorists in the US were bad but that the Palestinians were "freedom fighters". Immediately after saying that all the Muslims attending applauded.

He then stated that, "The US is responsible for terrorism"