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And you have all the Jews in Hollywood!

Look at the spiritual jewels Speilberg and Company has come out with lately.

I don't think you can use fairly look to a Kennedy as a example of Catholic teaching.

And if you can tag Kennedy as a Catholic, can I call the 'Toon a Protestant?

I have no idea where the 28,000 comes from, I didn't use it, but while the Cathloic Church itself teaches against birth control, divorce and remarriage, abortion ect, the point is that it is hard to find consistency amoung our Protestant brothers on issues like these.

When Catholics say 28,000 protestant denominations, what do they mean? Does this count independent churches or not?

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I have cited this before, on various threads. It's taken from the World Christian Encylopedia, published by Oxford University Press. (http://www.ywam.org/books/wce.htm). The Web site says it was published 'late December 2000.' I assume this is the most recent revision of the book, since I've seen it cited in other articles dating back to at least as early as 1996.

I don't personally own the book, but I would be interested to hear what qualifications they used to distinguish separate denominations. I would venture to guess that it had to do with particular doctrinal differences, of small or great significance (e.g., whether one believed in post-trib, pre-trib; whether one believed in the real presence, the necessity or existence or efficacy of Sacraments; the necessity of ordained ministers; etc.) Although I would certainly argue that there are many different denominations that are for the most part identical in doctrinal beliefs, I find it very difficult to believe that the only spot of contention that separates them is whether they believe it's OK to use snare drums in a worship song.

Because I have seen for some time the havoc created by celebrity Catholics and dissenting Catholic religious, I always felt incredibly sorry for Baptists and Methodists when the Clintons paraded around with their Bibles. I also knew how embarrassed Orthodax Jews were when Lieberman explained how abortion was not contrary to Judaism. I am sure you can identify with how Catholics feel about geeks like two of the four you mentioned. There is no question that to hear a McBrien or a Ted Kennedy claim they are Catholic makes an orthodox Catholic sad or furious.

They simply are not Catholic and whatever doctrine or dogma or practice they teach,preach or exhibit if it is not in accord with the Catholic Catechism,which is the official teaching of the Church,is error. That is the beauty of the Catholic Church,there is a repository of the faith and we can all access it.

Unfortunately,most Catholics these days are so caught up with the post-Vatican II new,touchy,feely,Kumbaya Church and they don't even know the dreck they are accepting as Catholicism,is not. If all they did was read the catechism and the Encyclicals of the Pope they would have been able to have influenced our society, so that citizens of this country would live in a Culture of Life rather than a the Culture of Death. I believe that the rot of the last ten years which led to the events on September II would not have occurred had the people,clergy and lay,not tried to broaden their appeal and get worldly and throw the supernatural aside.

It is a tragedy and a profound embarrassment that Catholics voted for the likes of a Clinton or a Gore with their unwavering dedication to provide unlimited oppurtunity to enjoy, through personal experience or vicariously,every type of perversion and ill-behavior man is capable of imagining. The Catholic Church,much like our country has been infiltrated by persons claiming beliefs and values,in accord with the "true believers". These infiltrators or subversives actually hold to evil ideologies far,far from those they claim to espouse. They have an agenda that,in fact, is probably too frightening for most people to comprehend. But God is Just and He is Merciful and He will prevail. But if His people don't wake-up,powerful and loving as He is, there is little that He can do about us with our free will which we interpret as "our 'God-given'right to choose". I guess,we can only pray .

And finally, Cardinl Ratzinger and Mother Angelica are both pretty darn orthodox Catholics despite disparate styles.

This from a church which contains such opposites as Richard McBrien and Cardinal Ratzinger, Ted Kennedy and Mother Angelica. You should be a little more forthright in acknowledging doctrinal dissent within your own church.

You used the correct word, dissent. While the Church isn't in the habit of kicking folks out, it is at least recognizable when person A conflicts with written official statement B. Such "diversity" in Catholic thought is a scandal. Such "diversity" in Protestant thought is a blessing. (apparently)