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To: the808bass
I disagree. They were given the authority to proclaim what had already happened in heaven. Big difference.

That is not what the passage says. Read it again:

If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." (John 20:23)

"If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven". Seems pretty straightforward. Nothing to suggest a mere rubber-stamp of what already has been decided in Heaven.

75 posted on 10/04/2001 9:59:48 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: angelo
"Binding" and "loosing" mean what to the rabbi?
82 posted on 10/04/2001 10:08:50 AM PDT by the808bass
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To: angelo
It is my understanding that the rabbis used the terms binding and loosing for determining whether actions are forbidden or allowed by the Law. Therefore, this would describe the activity of a judge. The judge does not declare innocent or guilty based upon his/her personal preference (at least in theory) but upon the evidence submitted. A person is "bound" or "loosed" from the charges made against them.

In the Mattew passage, in context, this would refer to Peter's ability to declare people forgiven or condemned according to their response to the message of the kingdom of God, that Jesus was the Christ. Note that the Christian belief would have that being something that has already occured whether or not Peter makes his pronouncement. If a person has rejected the message of the Kingdom of God then Heaven has already made a declaration and Peter is passing it along (as indicated by the future perfect participle in Matt. 16 - estai dedemenon).

In the John passage (which is obviously a completely independent source, different verbs and construction completely), the context is in the commission of the disciples of the risen Lord and the gift of the Spirit. It would seem to imply the double mission that John has so evident in his gospel: the mission of declaring both judgment and salvation. Jesus was sent to reveal God and redeem mankind. John 3:17 - "God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him." But the rejection of the revelation and the Revelator brings a negative judgment on the rejectors. John 9:39 - "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see should see, and that those who see should become blind." Disciples are then proclaiming the forgiveness of sins, something that the risen Savior has already accomplished, and thus, the entry into the salvation of God. And also proclaiming judgment on those who reject the revelation and salvation of the Christ.

97 posted on 10/04/2001 10:43:32 AM PDT by the808bass
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