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1 posted on 10/03/2001 10:26:11 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: angelo
Did I make it in first?
2 posted on 10/03/2001 10:31:29 PM PDT by the808bass
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To: Everyone
Can someone please explain to me the oft bandied "28,000" denominations? The only way you could possibly cite this number is if you count each individual independent (that is, unaffiliated with any larger church body) church as a separate denomination. But this is unreasonable. Many of these churches would be very close or identical in doctrine. Calling each of these a separate denomination is akin to saying that there are thousands of Jewish denominations, simply because each individual synagogue is autonomous.
3 posted on 10/03/2001 10:31:35 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: allend
You wrote: About that "based on scripture" thing, every denomination, every storefront church, every street corner preacher claims his exotic doctrines are based on scripture.

So true! But all you need to do is compare his exotic doctrines to what Scripture says on the same subjects to see that it is not based on Scripture. Compare them with the whole context of the Word. "He who is spiritual appraises all things." "Examine everything carefully, and hold fast to that which is good." We ought to examine teachings in the light of God's Word, and the more familiar you make yourself with the Word, the easier that is.

Furthermore, if the Bible really is "all that is necessary," then you don't even need the teaching. Indeed, if sola scriptura were really followed, there would be no "teaching." When it came time for the sermon, the pastor would go to the pulpit, read some scripture, and then sit down.

I would say that it is true that the sacred writings ARE sufficient. The only thing, tho', is that Jesus instructed His disciples to teach all men to observe all that He had commanded them. (Mt. 28) In the same vein, Paul told Timothy to "Preach the Word." [It's interesting to note here what Paul said was to be the content of the preaching---the Word.]

12 posted on 10/04/2001 12:26:20 AM PDT by hopefulpilgrim
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To: SoothingDave
Hi, SD! You wrote: I'll try again. The Scripture says that the Word of God will equip a man, making him perfect. This does not say that only the Bible is necessary to equip the man, only that it is essential. Contemplate my parallel sentences. Essential is not sufficient.

Here are the two verses from 2 Tim.3:16, 17 (New American Bible): All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work."

If you have all the weapons you need for battle, we would say you are "equipped" for battle, right? If, then, you are equipped for battle, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU NEED? NO. The word "equipped" signifies sufficiency.

14 posted on 10/04/2001 12:43:10 AM PDT by hopefulpilgrim
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To: OLD REGGIE
From Thread 155 #111

For one, Paul and Barnabus spoke after Peter did.

Yes they did and they no longer spoke about circumcision. The matter was settled. We also have the example in Acts 10 where an angel instructed Cornelius to send for Peter. Peter went to him and became the first apostle to receive gentiles into the church and the first to baptize them.

"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. "(Acts10:48)

What Peter speaks about in Acts 15 is what he had already done in Acts 10. Peter not only made the decision, he had already implemented it.

18 posted on 10/04/2001 4:56:46 AM PDT by pegleg
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To: Havoc
Good morning Havoc. The808bass can try to answer this as well, as he has Greek training. You analysis of the Petra/Petros seems thorough. Except for one little thing.

Suppose in an alternative universe, where black is white, and water runs uphill that Jesus actually was changing Simon's name to "Rock" --- "Big Rock" at that. How would one go about naming a man with a feminine word?

Thank you.

SD

30 posted on 10/04/2001 6:53:55 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: JHavard
That's nice. But the question is "If the Bible (Sola Scriptura) is the ultimate rule of faith, why does the Bible call the Church the foundation and pillar of truth?" You would think the Bible would call itself the pillar and foundation of truth.

Let me break this down and see if I can make sense out of it.

(Translation)
If you receive all your faith from the Bible, why is the Church called the foundation and pillar of truth?

Where do you find that?

In the Bible. Peter I think. I'll find it for ya.

1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

So which is it? Is Jesus the foundation or is it the apostles and prophets? We know Peter can't be "the Rock" cause the Bible calls Jesus "The Rock" elsewhere. So why can "the foundation" be two different things in two different places?

My foundation is in Christ, then his word helps me to better understand what he wants of me and how I should conduct my self, and who he is.

Let me say this, if all the Bibles were destroyed, I would not loose my faith, since I have already established what I believe.

I don't know another way to answer this, but if it's not satisfactory, it's not because I'm avoiding it, it's because I don't understand it.:-)

I think it's because you redefined the question again. It is not about where your faith comes from, it is about the logical conflict in Sola Scriptura. I'll break it down.

Sola Scriptura is the idea that Scripture is the ultimate judge of everything else. It is the "last chance to get it right" appeal to which all Christians should listen. Scripture is what sets the standard of what is good and what is bad. What is true and what is false is determined by our inspired reading of Scripture. God and Scripture decide things together working in our hearts. Scripture is the source of all that is true.

Scripture itself calls the Church the "pillar of truth." This is in direct conflict with the idea of the Bible being the pillar of truth that is Sola Scriptura.

SD

34 posted on 10/04/2001 7:47:30 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: ALL; vmatt
From Thread 154:54

Anyone lurking would very quickly learn that there is no true church, no leaders and very little knowledge of what God has said in his word. Jesus taught in parables and I'll wager none here can explain them. Maybe you are capable of responding to a challenge and quit beating yourselves up.

I think we have just witnessed the first example of a "Christian" nihilist. I use the term Christian in the absolute broadest sense when describing vmatt.

See what the Reformation[sic] hath wrought?

Pray for John Paul II

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. - Michael Corleone

45 posted on 10/04/2001 8:44:29 AM PDT by dignan3
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To: angelo
Hi Steven! Glad you're feeling better. Go ahead and repeat yourself; everyone else here does! ;o)

I think what I meant to say is that when I'm less than a hundred percent its hard to repeat myself. I can parrott as well as the next person. :-) (my kids can attest to that)

54 posted on 10/04/2001 9:11:45 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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