The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 155

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[JmyBryan]

Good Read:

James the Brother of Jesus : The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls

[Havoc]

Why did the "Pope" let another make the judgment? If Peter had made the judgment Acts 15 would have been a lot shorter.

The same reason Jesus had to tell peter three times to feed his Sheep. The same reason Peter denied Christ three times. Peter was wishy washy and unreliable. He was not a leader. He didn't have the makings of a leader. And if Jesus' chastisement had been handled instead by a Drill seargent, the chastisement would have been something like 'C'mon boy, Grow a pair!' Tho not as clean, 'Make up your mind! Do you want to live or die!' Well, come to think of it, Paul did give him one of those figurative 'What the, Git off of my obstacle! Get the heck down off my obstacle! Have you lost your mind!' LOL.

[Havoc]

The two are quite easily rectified. Obedience is the thing missing from context here. People who think they will be saved by works are dead wrong (no pun intended) because the foundation must first exist before obedience to the law means anything. In other words, you have to be saved! After that, obedience to God and therefore God's law is not optional it is required. Goes back to the two keys always. Salvation and obedience. Obedience is that which eternal life (a promise) is hinged upon. No obedience, no eternal life. Therefore by obedience to the law we are justified before God. One cannot be disobedient to God or his laws and be justified. But one cannot be justified by obedience to the law alone.

[Havoc]

Then if there is no strict adherence to the doctrine of Scripture Alone, on what authority do neo-Christians deny the validity of Holy Tradition?

Scripture. If it doesn't align with scripture, the word Holy don't belong anywhere near it. Garbage is garbage. You can add modifiers all day long; but, it still is summed up best in the phrase "a pig in a tuxedo is still a pig". If there is no basis for authority, it's useless. And saying it came from somebody worth hearing from is about as authoritative as me trying to sell you a period peice from Italy from WWII and telling you Moose-olini sat in it (sp on purpose). Right, where's the proof! No proof and it doesn't line up with scripture- too bad, soo sad, from Dad!

[Havoc]

And so you still are running. And, as we had pretty much figured out, you are on such a level as to consider Havoc as a valuable ally

ROFLOL - In tears. My sides hurt. I can't believe you guys are this blind and have this level of Gaul.

Who was it, refresh my memory please, that hid behind 'church fathers' and Jack Chick-ish cut and pastes for two and a half threads of "Where's the proof" only to have SD turn right around and admit that the 'church fathers' as you call them are unreliable. I was trashed for that time for saying the self same thing and requiring proof of a SINGLE solitary question. The only real attempt made was by Pegleg who, tho forgiven in this, cut and pasted three zero authority references that did not support his point.

An honest answer was given to the question. I'm not blind. I was here. And I still know how to go back and read it again - wow. It's still there. It didn't go anywhere.

And as far as your opinion of me is concerned, you'd better hope it improves if you end up in heaven, cause I'm going to be there. And if you don't love me by then, you're going to hate paradise with a passion!

[Havoc]

Sola scriptura means "scripture alone." I see you are rejecting the central dogma of the Reformation. Congratulations. Perhaps you can convince some of your Protestant colleagues.

Your problem is that all protestants do not - and never have believed this tripe. It's a non-sequeter of epic proportions when dealing with a Christian. If Catholics could get the flip side of it in line, you guys might be in better shape. BTW, the flip side is dragging in tradition with no authority, Philosophies that are but garbage, and the opinions of a bunch of old men from the second century on that could neither agree with the Bible or one another. If they found the truth it would be the dissenting view killed with extreme prejudice!

[Havoc]

Tell us one more time how Peter was treated in Papal fashion.

Verse 12 must not be in the Catholic translation. Or perhaps they figure Paul and Barnabas weren't really people, but allusions to the thoughts of Peter? LOLOL

[Havoc]

Considering that James, according to St. Paul, had been the leader of the pro-circumcision faction up until that time, it looks like Peter's statement must have been pretty compelling.

Maybe, maybe not. Since James was on the same side initially he could have completely ignored Petros and made his decision in Petros's complete absense. Did Petros have a say in the matter - yes. That is as much as can be said. He certainly didn't have the final word, or even next to last. Two people spoke after him, and the one with responsibility for the Jerusalem Church made the decision. Had this been Rome, Paul would have had the say. Had it been Petros's stomping ground, Petros would have had the say (Babylon & home church in Judea). Petros just offers another opinion among the group with no greater or lesser authority than the others with the exception of the one who's job it is to oversee this flock!

[ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton]

A couple of generations ago, a Catholic author compared the Church's interpretation of the Scriptures to the U.S. Supreme court and the U.S.Constitution . Seeing how the courts have gone in this age, I would hesitate to use that analogy . Maybe, a theoretically proper Supreme court .

What I think shows the amazing insight of our forefathers is that our country survived Bill Clinton.

And yes having a living breathing authority to interpet the Consistitution, was a necessity.

[conservonator]

I know this is going back about, oh 153 threads, but what Holy Traditions, don't align with Scripture. In your estimable opinion of course. Or better yet, where has the Church, (Catholic Church) in it's teaching authority, contradicted Scripture?

Since you and other neo-Christians have demonstrated that the doctrine of “Scripture Alone” doesn’t mean that the Bible isn’t the sole rule of faith, maybe you can explain to me exactly what the notion of Scripture Alone means.

[conservonator]

Your problem is that all protestants do not - and never have believed this tripe. It's a non-sequeter of epic proportions when dealing with a Christian. If Catholics could get the flip side of it in line, you guys might be in better shape. BTW, the flip side is dragging in tradition with no authority, Philosophies that are but garbage, and the opinions of a bunch of old men from the second century on that could neither agree with the Bible or one another. If they found the truth it would be the dissenting view killed with extreme prejudice!

So you reject the notion of the Trinity? You must since this is just the type of "garbage" we receive via Holy Tradition.

[Blessed]

Answer=Purgatory

[Havoc]

Answers: Purgatory, Prayers to the dead specifically - the saints and Mary, Mariology, Differentiation of levels of sin, Indulgences, Prayers for the dead, Relic worship and the selling of relics (fraudulent & otherwise), stamps, False miracles which amount to tempting God and blasphemy (the turning of dry blood into fluid - all that room to hide a squirt bottle in and soo many brick dumb people willing to buy it) Remember Jesus was tempted to turn a rock into bread - same thing. BTW, do you want a full list or will this do as a starter set? A full list could take weeks.

[Havoc]

You must since this is just the type of "garbage" we receive via Holy Tradition.

Calling something Holy or tradition makes neither, of necessity, the case. And, as an aside, finding an exception , if you could, does not create a rule.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

You sure have been around alot for leaving farwell post a few thread ago. Was that a trick?

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Paging Steven ... if you don't pick up the pace you will lose your seat as the most frequent poster.

Wow. A couple of geniuses on the same wavelength. No foolin' I was just thinkin' about that today. I would pick it up but everytime I think about typing something I realize that I've already responded to this or that before. Either that or I need some inspiration. Just got over a bout with the flu. How are you?

[Havoc]

See my 120 please: Any thoughts to add? I think I could add at least one thing. Petra as a fem word is has a substantial impact on what the Church is to Jesus - the bride. A fem. application to the base is a perfect precursor of a full grown spiritual bride. The more I look at it, the more implications it seems to have.

[al_c]

Wow. A couple of geniuses on the same wavelength. No foolin' I was just thinkin' about that today. I would pick it up but everytime I think about typing something I realize that I've already responded to this or that before. Either that or I need some inspiration. Just got over a bout with the flu. How are you?

Welcome back, friend. Glad to hear you're well.

Yeah, it's hard to jump in when we've already been over this stuff again and again. What a vicious cycle. But you better come up with something fast or you'll be overthrown. Probably by Dave or JH.

Things are well here, but lonely. The wife and child are out of town this week. Oh, well ... at least I can catch up on cleaning and car work.

Was just checking in. I'm outa here now. See ya manana!

[RobbyS]

Calling something Holy or tradition makes neither And vicious invective about truly holy people and defaming the religious faith of honest folk doesn't make any of that true, either.

[RobbyS]

What is it that keeps you from understanding what any one reasonably knowledgable abou the Catholic Church would understand, the local bishop is the ordinary authority in his own diocese, just as the governor of a state is the chief executive within that jurisdiction. No one ever claimed that Peter was bishop of Jerusalem.