Marines do it their own way

MSNBC ^ | 9/30/01 | Sue Lackey

[kattracks]

A different approach to special forces
A Marine awaits orders during urban war training exercises last week at Camp Pendleton, California.
By Sue Lackey MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

Sept. 30 —  For the average Marine, it is both amusing and a bit galling to hear all the talk about “special forces” and their capabilities. For while the Army, Navy and Air Force have created Special Operations Commands with a unique structure, the Marine Corps has taken its basic forward deployed unit — the Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) — and trained every one in special operations tactics.

THE FAMED Delta Force is often celebrated as the nation’s most elite special operations team, but its position as a member of the the Army’s Joint Special Operations Command gives it a narrow focus restricted to counterterrorism and hostage rescue. In contrast, each MEU must be qualified in 18 separate mission areas, including counter terrorism. This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.
       Gen. Alfred M. Gray, who served as Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1980s, helped create the Joint Special Operations Command. But while the command often requests Marines to flesh out its capability, the Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level. “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,” says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.”
       Under a recent reform of the system, traditional special operations forces forces are assigned to specific theater Commanders in Chief — for instance, the Commander in Chief, Europe or the Commander in Chief, Southern Command, which handles Latin America. East of these commands have units with specific specialties, and depend on that regional commander for support. MEU’s, however, an amphibious force that can be deployed at will to any theater. Their floating base of operations gives them the ability to sustain a mission longer than other special operations forces, which are traditionally used for short term insertions, or in the case of the Green Berets, specific insurgency training missions.
 

      The true strength of the MEUs lie in their ability to augment their forces with air and ground combat elements and combat service support. This means any given unit can call in tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, and fixed wing aircraft — all of which are part of standard MEU order of battle. Other special operations forces must rely on conventional service support when additional forces are needed.
       A perfect example of this versatility was in the 1983 Grenada invasion, where Army special forces were inserted to extract U.S. Embassy staff. The team was able to reach their target, but were then bottled up inside the embassy and unable to get out through enemy troops. The JSOC team then called for Marine support. An MEU which had been diverted to Grenada broke through with tanks and armored vehicles to extract their colleagues and the embassy personnel they had rescued.
       The way in which special operations training has been integrated into the basic structure of the Corps has changed the capabilities of the Corps as a whole. The other military services are large enough to allow their SF units to function in some degree of separation. Because the Marine Corps is so small in numbers, its SOC qualified personnel rotate on duty throughout the Corps, which has enhanced the overall quality of training and identification with special operations forces. Most of these men have now percolated to the top of the command structure. “It’s been in place so long now that a lot of the flag officers grew up with this-they’re Al Gray’s boys,” said one Marine special operations veteran. “That’s what you do not get in the other special forces, because they tend to stay in their own areas. When they do go into other units to further their careers, they have problems integrating within the conventional forces and its military bureaucracy. They don’t do well as staff officers; they want to go back to their unit.”
       That lack of experienced special forces officers at high levels to give special forces a voice allows other branches of the conventional forces to marginalize the effectiveness of special operations in budget battles and mission planning — a situation the Marine Corps has managed to avoid.

       

[usmcobra]

I only kept them flying
Something I was very good at!
LOOONNNNNGGG Hours of working and waiting!

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

To ALL my Brothers and Sisters:
SALUTE
from a tin can sailor

[gc4nra]

Thank him for his service!

[usmcobra]

Now I ain't trying to give you any grief but the Marines have this place they train at,
It's called Twenty Nine Palms,
and The Marines have been Training there for Desert and Mountain warfare for quite some time.
Afghanistan maybe landlocked but that doesn't mean Marines have to get their feet wet to get the Job done!

[COB1]

I don't know if that's MF, but I said "that hill" because I don't think we missed any of those hills at Pendleton.
They outlawed duckwalking shortly after I got out, so some of the guys might not know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, for physical training, I don't think anyone has the Marine Corps beat.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"They outlawed duckwalking shortly after I got out, so some of the guys might not know what I'm talking about."

We used to duckwalk in Navy bootcamp in '66.

[COB1]

"It's called Twenty Nine Palms,"

Those words were enough to give a Gyrene some nightmares!
In the middle of the Mojave Desert with nothing but sand and sun.
The tanks looked awfully inviting to ride on until you toasted your butt a few times.
I wonder if they still stay in those quonset huts?

[sneakypete]

You are a troll and not a very good one Sneakypete!

Sober up.

The Image I posted was of two USMC Cobras

Who said they weren't?

The same type as went in to Bosnia to rescue Capt. O'Grady along with a CH-53 Sea Stallion

Are you trying to claim only the USMC can do this? Ever hear of US Army "Bright Light Teams" or of "US Air Force Air Commandoes"?

BTW,two US military units that NEVER get the recogonition they deserve are the Air Commandoes and the US Coast Guard rescue swimmers. While we US Army and USMC vets are batting the ball back and forth,we should both take a few minutes out to recogonize the courage and skill of these people. If WE won't do it,you can bet your butt nobody else will.

[COB1]

"We used to duckwalk in Navy bootcamp in '66."

I didn't know that, Tonkin.
I got out of boot in '58 and I heard before I left Pendleton in '62 that they had outlawed duckwalking because of the damage to the knees.

[sneakypete]

I started reading this thread and KNEW you'd be along here soon slingin' that Naval Infantry shit.

Well,you have to take your fun where you find it anymore.

wonder what the zoomies call us when we're out of earshot.

Who cares? They have DAMN good food,and don't even get mad when they catch us stealing it. In fact,I would like to go on record right here to advise the young Marines and soldiers to either buy or steal a USAF fatigue uniform right now so they will already have it when they deploy. Anytime you are deployed and want some GOOD food in a AC setting with real tables,all you have to do is put in on and wander into a AF messhall. The big things you have to watch out for is to not act shocked and say "HUH?" when they ask you what main course you would like,and to try and remember to not salute or look them in the eye. Either seems to scare them,and it lets them know you are a imposter.

Where can a lean green fighting machine get any respect around here huh?

It sure ain't easy,is it? Oh well,to quote Heinlein,"To the everlasting glory of the infantry!"

[sneakypete]

It would be a foolish waste of their specialized training, equipment, and organization to employ a MEU in Afganistan.

Why? A infantry assault is a infantry assault,regardless of if it comes from a helicopter or a ship. This is the USMC's reason to exist,and nobody does it better than them.

What *I* can't figure out is why are all these people talking about using SEALS. Talk about "a duck out of water"! They can't do anything in Afhaginistan that Force Recon or the US Army Rangers and/or SF isn't better qualified or trained to do.

[Don Myers]

"And I, in turn, don't care what you think about the folks paying your salary, so long as you get the job done. "

You sound like a person who thinks the military doesn't pay their share of income taxes. Get real. This argument is as old as the hills for someone who wants to feel superior to the military. It doesn't work. You are inferior to them.

[grunt03]

In fact,I would like to go on record right here to advise the young Marines and soldiers to either buy or steal a USAF fatigue uniform right now so they will already have it when they deploy.

You are a wise man sneakypete.

Anytime you are deployed and want some GOOD food in a AC setting with real tables,all you have to do is put in on and wander into a AF messhall.

Please tell me you have or know someone that's done this.

The big things you have to watch out for is to not act shocked and say "HUH?" when they ask you what main course you would like,

Got a good laugh out of that one. "Huh?" was about my reaction when I first dined in an AF mess at Kadena Air Base. Little tables that seat 4, cloth table cloths and napkins, real coffee cups and plates, and man the grub was good.

Dittos your sentiments of the zoomie warriors and CG swimmers. I don't know what units flew the Jolly Greens with the jungle penetrators, but those guys were packing solid brass.

[sneakypete]

Please tell me you have or know someone that's done this.

Please don't hold it against me. I was a innocent young soldier,and didn't know any better. Besides,if they don't have any better sense than to leave their fatigue shirts hanging on a line unguarded,they didn't deserve to have them.

Got a good laugh out of that one. "Huh?" was about my reaction when I first dined in an AF mess at Kadena Air Base. Little tables that seat 4, cloth table cloths and napkins, real coffee cups and plates, and man the grub was good.

I first learned this when I was deployed to the Domicican Republic in 64. The AF was there one month,and already had a ac mess-hall built and was serving "Class A" rations. The army was still heating "C ration" cans in boiling water after being there for 6 months.

I don't know what units flew the Jolly Greens with the jungle penetrators, but those guys were packing solid brass.

That would be those unsung gentlemen from the United States Air Force "Air Commandoes",and you're right about them having brass ones. They even went in on a mountaintop in Laos one night to rescue one of our teams where every single man was wounded,and they were unable to move anymore. This was around midnight,and they had to light up the damn landing lights to see what they were doing. All the while being shot at from the ground. Granted,they had a LOT of tac air and flares to help,but STILL......!

[Liberal Classic]

[Iris7]

I don't believe you do our country, people, or fighting men proper respect when you criticize an innocent affection for the Marine Corps. I, for one, bow to NO man in my affection for the Corps. I respect any American willing to do his duty, and particularly Americans that are going in harm's way to protect my children. I have met more than a few Army men who are better men than I. The same for Navy men.

If asked I would be honored to serve. It is wrong to keep men out of this just because they are no longer young.

[Iris7]

At first I thought it was funny that someone could be such a jerk, then it put me off, and then it was very sad. You are utterly clueless. My twelve year old is of vastly better character than you are - and she is a girl.

[Iris7]

Fine story. I've been a big fan of Secretary of the Navy James Webb (Navy Cross I believe) who wrote the wonderful Fields of Fire. Secretary Webb was the man you can blame for General Grey. No, not blame. Praise the LORD for General Grey.

[VietVet]

No-one with any sense doubts that, if the Marines are sent to do the job, the job *will* get done.

But I can just imagine the "Powers-That-Be" sending the Marines hundreds of miles inland, to a mountainous desert, and then using the 7th Light Infantry or 10th Mountain Division to attack , say, Iraq, which has sea-borne approaches.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

"If asked I would be honored to serve. It is wrong to keep men out of this just because they are no longer young."

We Need You: United State Coast Guard Auxillary

I received my application in the mail 9/27
and spoke with the local head of the local flotilla 9/26 and we are meeting 10/3
The Oregon National Guard would not accept me because I just turned 53,
BUT that is not a problem with the Coast Guard Auxillary.
Just goes to show you, old tin can sailors CAN be re-cycled, LOL