Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: sirgawain
So you think that Satan used the terrorists, as opposed to God using them? How do you know? Even if God didn't direct it to happen, He allowed it to happen.

We know this was not God's doing by the nature of the actions -- they were unequivocally evil.

Since the terrorists believed they were doing God's will, it is clear they were being deceived by the one we call the Father of Lies -- Satan. However, this does not excuse their actions. There are no conscripts in Satan's army. Ultimately, no one serves Satan against his or her will. IOW they knew what they were doing.

69 posted on 09/30/2001 7:35:45 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies ]


To: Victoria Delsoul, miss marple
From another article:

God "works all things after the counsel of His will" (Ephesians 1:11).

"All things" includes rolling dice (Proverbs 16:33), falling sparrows (Matthew 10:29), failing sight (Exodus 4:11), financial loss (1 Samuel 2:7), the decisions of kings (Proverbs 21:1), the sickness of children (2 Samuel 12:15), the suffering and slaughter of saints (1 Peter 4:19; Psalm 44:11), the completion of travel (James 4:15), repentance (2 Timothy 2:25), faith (Philippians 1:29), holiness (Philippians 3:12-13), spiritual growth (Hebrews 6:1-3), life and death (1 Samuel 2:6), and the crucifixion of Christ (Acts 4:27-28).

From the smallest thing to the greatest, good and evil, happy and sad, pagan and Christian, pain and pleasure—God governs all for His wise, just, and good purposes (Isaiah 46:10). Lest we miss the point, the Bible speaks most clearly to this in the most painful situations. Amos asks, "If a calamity occurs in a city, has not the Lord done it?" (Amos 3:6). After losing his 10 children, Job says, "The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord" (Job 1:21). Covered with boils, he says, "Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?" (Job 2:10).

Oh, yes, Satan is real and active and involved in this world of woe! In fact, Job 2:7 says, "Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head." Satan struck him. But Job did not get comfort by looking at secondary causes. He got comfort by looking at the ultimate cause. "Shall we not accept adversity from God?" And the author of the book agrees when he says that Job's brothers and sisters "consoled him and comforted him for all the adversities that the Lord had brought on him" (Job 42:11). James underlines God's purposeful goodness in Job's misery: "You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord's dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful" (James 5:11). Job himself concludes in prayer: "I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted" (Job 42:2). Yes, Satan is real, and he is terrible—and he is on a leash.

The other reason I don't say, "God did not cause the calamity, but He can use it for good," is that it undercuts the very hope it wants to create. I ask those who say this: "If you deny that God could have 'used' a million prior events to save 6,000 people from this great evil, what hope then do you have that God will 'use' this terrible event to save you (spiritually or physically) in the hour of trial?" We say we believe He can use these events for good, but deny that He could use the events of the past to hold back the evil of Sept. 11. The Bible teaches He could have restrained this evil (Genesis 20:6). "The Lord nullifies the counsel of the nations; He frustrates the plans of the peoples" (Psalm 33:10). But it was not in His plan to do it. Let us beware. If we spare God the burden of His sovereignty, we lose our only hope.

We all are sinners. We deserve to perish. Every breath is an undeserved gift. We have one great hope: Jesus Christ died to obtain pardon and righteousness for us (Ephesians 1:7; 2 Corinthians 5:21), and God will employ His all-conquering, sovereign grace to preserve us for our inheritance (Jeremiah 32:40). We surrender this hope if we sacrifice this sovereignty.

--end article

I couldn't have said it any better.

71 posted on 09/30/2001 8:28:28 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies ]

To: Victoria Delsoul
And another snip:

God ALONE is the sovereign of the Universe! He does not distance Himself from the circumstances of life (Amos 3:6). God is not the author of evil (James 1:13). Satan and the depraved human heart devised these wicked events

BUT God is sovereign, NOT MAN, NOT Satan. Yes men have a free will, yes they are responsible for their actions BUT, Satan and man can not do anything unless God allows it to take place. Dr. Warren needs to re-read Job. God is in control and He has Satan on a very short leash.

God never told Job never why the things that happened to him took place. Job's response: he humbled himself, recognized GOD"S sovereignty over disaster and instead of accusing God of evil or impotence. He worshiped the Sovereign of the Universe (Job 1:21-22)

Is it really unreasonable to think that God allowed these events to occur/in judgment upon our nation for it's sin?

Here is a copy of a message that was proclaimed yesterday.

Dr. S

P.S. Warning, it is NOT "seeker sensitive".

God... Why?...

Dr. S

God… why? Given the reality of Tuesday’s events, this question is being asked throughout our country and the world. There is a very good possibility that God temporarily lifted His hand of protection from America and has judged us for our sins. For years we have sown the wind and now we have reaped the whirlwind of judgment.

It was ironic to see Daschel, Dodd, Kennedy, Gephardt, Mrs. Clinton and other political leaders commiserating in Washington in the midst of this tragedy, singing "God Bless America" and asking the people of America to "pray to God"! Many of these same government "leaders" have been totally opposed to the Lord Jesus Christ, prayer in school or within the halls of government. People who support and promote sexual immorality, sodomy and the wholesale genocide of the unborn stand together, and ask for prayer.

But what does God have to say about all of this:

24 "Because I called and you refused, I stretched out my hand and no one paid attention;

25 And you neglected all my counsel And did not want my reproof;

26 I will also laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes,

27 When your dread comes like a storm And your calamity comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you.

28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,

29 Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD.

30 "They would not accept my counsel, They spurned all my reproof.

31 "So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way And be satiated with their own devices.

32 "For the waywardness of the naive will kill them, And the complacency of fools will destroy them.

33 "But he who listens to me shall live securely And will be at ease from the dread of evil." (Proverbs 1:24 - 33)

We have a biblical mandate to pray for President Bush and those in leadership, we have a responsibility to pray for the nation. It is our Christian duty and privilege. But God's word is clear: "we reap what we sow". America has chosen and supported many ungodly and unrighteous political and religious leaders because they are reflective of what many Americans themselves believe and how many of us morally and spiritually live our lives. We have been willing to overlook their ungodly conduct and policies because "character does not matter, it is the economy stupid." Well, God will NOT be mocked. That said, He holds out this promise:

13 "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people,

14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. (2 Chronicles 7:13 - 14)

We as a nation, founded upon faith in Christ Jesus and biblical principles have replaced Him with other "gods" (which are NOT gods). Many have made a concerted effort to reject Him and tear God out of the very fabric of our society and personal lives. We have tended to treat the Lord Jesus like a "dixie cup" which we use and throw away at our convenience. We expect God not to judge us while asking Him to run to our rescue and protect us from our enemies.

I have an honest question I would like you to answer, whether you agree with me or not. Before the events of September 11th took place, were we as individuals and as a nation living righteous and godly lives? Lives pleasing to God who is Holy, absolutely righteous and totally just? Or had we chosen to forget Christ, spurn His Word and do whatever was right in our own eyes? If the answer is the latter, then no matter how painful it is, the truth is this: We are being judged, as a people for our sin. It is not my intention to offend but we can not use God and expect Him to be at our beck and call. Nor can we call upon Him to "protect" and "defend us" when it is convenient or politically expedient and spurn Jesus and His Word the rest of the time. There is a simple yet profound principle in His Word and it is this: God is not mocked, you reap what you sow and what you reap is multiplied. That is true for individuals, it is also true for nations.

Another question that is being asked boils down to this: How could God use a nation or individuals even more evil to judge another nation less evil than itself? ... Because He loves us! He did this numerous times throughout the Old Testament. Israel (the Northern kingdom) had turned away from following the Lord and He allowed the Assyrians to overcome and conquer them. The Assyrians were brutal beyond comprehension. They ripped open pregnant women and dashed their babies against walls and pavement, they impaled their living victims, skinned them alive and crushed them under huge threshing sledges. This is just a small sample of what they did to Israel. The Southern kingdom of Judah was later conquered by the Babylonians. A wicked nation, totally given over to idols, worshipping their own strength, and immorality. Why did God allow this? Because His people had persisted in wickedness and in rejecting Him. God is loving, gracious and long suffering, but there comes a time when His patience is at an end. God is not only a God of love, He is also holy and just. He must judge sin, even the sin of nations. History has shown that no nation can spurn God, reject His Word and law and get away with it. Not Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Israel, or the United States of America.

Fortunately, there is hope, it is not too late. God has not forsaken loves us and holds out this promise to us as individuals and as a nation:

13 "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people,

14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:13 - 14)

What has happened is an unprecedented tragedy, but we are not without hope. I believe that God can use these events to produce spiritual revival throughout America if we respond in humility and repentance. We have been given a wake up call and a window of opportunity. How we respond is up to us.

72 posted on 09/30/2001 8:45:20 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson