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To: independentmind
Truly, I think you'll find "Utopia: The Perennial Heresy" a great read.

Utopians are the enemy ... be they communist, capitalist, theocratic or atheist or merely themost malleable of all ... the strictly materialistic.

Some hallmarks of utopia include: hubris, hate, faith in man, the alchemy of pragmatism, faith without reason (or reason without faith) and -- always -- an ability to distinguish and capitalize on the relative value of certain human lives.

But foremost is the ability to rationalize ... without which the militant atheists might never have struck a bargain to split with the soulless capitalist the baby the eugenicists were birthing for them.

I see no reason whatsoever to believe (as do some libertarians) that capitalism=liberty/democracy and that Lenin's NEP is somehow antithetical to "western materialism". It is not. The militant atheist Rand is a gateway drug of Convergence into rank Materialism for BOTH Left and Right.

There are other celebrated schisms which don't really exist. I see no reason to believe in the ballyhooed Sino-Soviet split. I was blown away by the frankness of Putin's latest surreal pronouncement -- that Germany not let Hitler or the Nazis preclude it from taking its rightful leadership position. All of these -- much less the increasingly communist/fascist profile of our own nation -- suggest the Convergence on which they've been working is proceeding apace.

And if you dare to take a peek at the "spiritual" side of New Age "Noosphere" evil, you'll find that same Convergence at work. It's all of a piece.

I know the lunkheads think I'm lying but I'm not so much a conspiracy theorist as I am convinced that one's take on the essentials of reality -- the infinite value and absolute right to life of every human being, for example -- quite naturally bends a person's actions, intent and convictions into service of the One Side or the Other.

We're sunk, basically. It's not so much that we've been destroyed from within and have no substance or Common Sense left, but our 1.2 million abortions a year and a President that uses a spoonful of Scripture to help the ECSR go down evidence quite clearly that we've actually embraced exactly those fundamentally evil premises which leave us poised to take the next ... and the next ... and the next Reasonable Step.

Besides, failing to be consistently good OR consistently evil, we're at the mercy of those whose Consistent Evil leaves them in the catbird seat of picking and choosing as they please what button to push, what agenda to crank, what faction to support, what "humanitarian" gesture to make, what confusion to cause in the continual and vigilant march toward the same objectives they've always had.

They describe it as being "on rails", you know, while the West waxes about its wishy washy "vision thing". No contest. The light at the end of the tunnel we think we see is the oncoming train what's going to crush us flat.

13 posted on 09/28/2001 2:34:15 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Askel5 independentmind
I was just browsing through those threads this morning. Well worth revisiting:
Utopian Stumbling Blocks: Government & Property
On Evil Government

15 posted on 09/28/2001 2:45:37 PM PDT by Dumb_Ox
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To: Askel5
We're sunk, basically. It's not so much that we've been destroyed from within and have no substance or Common Sense left, but our 1.2 million abortions a year and a President that uses a spoonful of Scripture to help the ECSR go down evidence quite clearly that we've actually embraced exactly those fundamentally evil premises which leave us poised to take the next ... and the next ... and the next Reasonable Step.

Well Askie, let me make a suggestion... It's friday, get outta the house and get down to the quarter and get siht faced drunk...

16 posted on 09/28/2001 2:46:20 PM PDT by VinnyTex
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To: Askel5
Truly, I think you'll find "Utopia: The Perennial Heresy" a great read.

I think so too. But we have utopians on our side too.

Is this about envy and fading power among some Moslems? Clearly, but also it has to be noted that the abundance and excess the modern world generates undercuts or overthrows all community norms and narratives, not just those of Muslims or totalitarians. Go to a big shopping mall, flick the hundred channels of cable or go into the big city and you can see perhaps that anyone who comes from a simpler world would be overwhelmed by the complexity, variety and excesses of the world we have created. Perhaps something good has been or can be created in this new world, but many of our own ancestors would be startled by this world and critical of it.

Make no mistake, the terrorists are the enemy. We have to take them out or no one will be safe. Freedom is the main characteristic of our world. But I'd be wary of embracing the modern world too closely. Here's E.M. Forster writing during another world crisis: "So, Two cheers for Democracy: one because it admits variety and two because it permits criticism. Two cheers are quite enough: there is no occasion to give three." I'd gladly give a cheer or two for modernity and support it against its enemies. It permits criticism and allows dissent. But I don't want to take it too closely to heart or demand that all bow down before it. I don't demand that it vanquish all earlier forms of civilization and cover the world with its characteristic buildings and institutions. What I fear is that the warriors at NR demand that kind of prostration before modernity and enthusiasm to sweep away all that opposes or ignores or withstands it.

121 posted on 09/30/2001 3:16:41 PM PDT by x
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To: Askel5
Besides, failing to be consistently good OR consistently evil, we're at the mercy of those whose Consistent Evil leaves them in the catbird seat of picking and choosing as they please what button to push, what agenda to crank, what faction to support, what "humanitarian" gesture to make, what confusion to cause in the continual and vigilant march toward the same objectives they've always had.

I think a lot of what you say is true but first we have to save our country and then make it better. We are still the best country with the most choices and freedoms. There are many many very good people in this country, the anti-abortion movement is stronger here than it is almost anywhere.

146 posted on 09/30/2001 5:12:49 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Askel5
“Say the Rosary every day to obtain peace for the world and the end of the war... If they do what I tell you, many souls will be saved, and there will be peace. The war is going to end [World War I]. But if they do not stop offending God, another and worse one will begin in the reign of Pius XI... When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that it is the great sign that God gives you that He is going to punish the world for its crimes by means of war, of hunger, and of persecution of the Church and of the Holy Father. “To prevent this, I come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If they listen to my requests, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. If not, she will scatter her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; many nations will be annihilated.

Not obviously poignant, but nevertheless possibly enlightening to those of us who might disagree with the author's contention (and that of GW himself) that we are at war with people who's motivations are primarily envy and totalitarian fervor against antithetical cultures(as if!).

The old saying applies about the lobster jumping out of the pot of boiling water, yet remains to be cooked alive if the temperature is raised gradually. We live in such a moral dump these days many people don't realize it; we've become acclimated to our decay and decadence. What's truly interesting about Our Lady's message to the children is that it was delivered to Portugal--The West. And the war was to punish us. Clearly does not jive with our self-congratulatory cheerleaders here on FR. I know that prophecies from Our Lady has little cache in the realm of politics, I thought you might enjoy this.

198 posted on 10/01/2001 7:52:47 AM PDT by medusa
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