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The Last Totalitarians - It’s not a completely new war.
National Review Online ^ | 09/28/2001 | Brink Lindsey

Posted on 09/28/2001 12:26:25 PM PDT by Fury

The Last Totalitarians
It’s not a completely new war.

By Brink Lindsey, senior fellow at the Cato Institute and author of the upcoming book Against the Dead Hand: The Uncertain Struggle for Global Capitalism . This article is adapted from the book.
September 28, 2001 1:00 p.m.

 

That President Bush has called the first war of the 21st century has much in common with the great wars of the century just past. Now, as then, the root cause of the carnage lies in radical discontent with modern industrial society — a hydra-headed historical phenomenon that is well described as the Industrial Counterrevolution.

At first glance, shadowy Islamist terrorists look very different from any enemy we have ever faced. And indeed, the tactics they employ are novel, as are the tactics that must be used to defeat them. But the fundamental nature of our present adversaries, once seen plainly, is all too familiar. The evil we confront today is the evil of totalitarianism: Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda, and their coconspirators are the modern-day successors of Lenin and Stalin, Mussolini and Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot.

The atrocities of today's terrorists are the last shudder of a historical convulsion of unprecedented fury and destructive power. It was spawned by the spiritual confusion that accompanied the coming of the modern age, and consists of a profound hostility toward the disciplines and opportunities of human freedom. With the collapse of the Soviet Empire we thought we were done with totalitarianism. But it lives still, and lives to do harm. As we prepare once more to face this old and dangerous adversary, we need to reacquaint ourselves with its origins and nature.

To understand what gave rise to the totalitarian plague, you have to appreciate the radical historical discontinuity represented by the technological dynamism of the past 150 years. In the second half of the 19th century, various strands of economic development — new energy sources, new production techniques, breakthroughs in transportation and communication — were woven into new organizational forms to produce a wealth-creating capacity of unprecedented scale, complexity, and power. It was during this great confluence that the scientific method was first systematically integrated into economic life; technological and organizational innovation became normal, routine, and ubiquitous. Nobel prize-winning economist Douglass North refers to the "wedding of science and technology" as the "Second Economic Revolution" — the first being the advent of agriculture ten millennia ago.

The Industrial Revolution was the economic expression of a much more general transformation, a radical new form of social order whose defining feature was the embrace of open-ended discovery: open-endedness in the pursuit of knowledge (provisional and refutable hypotheses supplanting revelation and authority), open-endedness in economic life (innovation and free-floating market transactions in place of tradition and the "just price"), open-endedness in politics (power emerging from the people rather than the divine right of kings and hereditary aristocracies), and open-endedness in life paths (following your dreams instead of knowing your place). In short, industrialization both advanced and reflected a larger dynamic of liberalization — a dramatic and qualitative shift in the dimensions of social freedom.

The emergence of this new liberal order in the North Atlantic world came as a series of jolting shocks. Kings were knocked from their thrones or else made subservient to parliaments; nobles were stripped of rank and power. Science displaced the earth from the center of the Universe, dragged humanity into the animal kingdom, and cast a pall of doubt over the most cherished religious beliefs. As if these assaults on age-old verities were not enough, the coup de grace was then applied with the eruption of mechanized, urbanized society. The natural, easy rhythms of country life gave way to the clanging, clock-driven tempo of the city and the factory, and new technologies of miraculous power and demonic destructiveness burst forth. Vast riches were heaped up in the midst of brutal hardship and want; new social classes erupted and struggled for position.

In countries outside of the North Atlantic world, the experience of modernization was, if anything, even more vertiginous. Social changes were often accelerated by the confrontation, all at once, with Western innovations that had taken decades or centuries to develop originally. Moreover, these changes were experienced not as homegrown developments, but as real or figurative conquests by foreign powers. Modernity thus came as a humiliation — a shocking realization that the local culture was hopelessly backward compared with that of the new foreign masters.

It is unsurprising that, in all the wrenching social tumult, many people felt lost — adrift in a surging flux without landmarks or firm ground. The deepest thinkers of the 19th century identified this anomie as the spiritual crisis of the age: Friedrich Nietzsche proclaimed the death of God, while Max Weber wrote of society's "disenchantment." But it was Karl Marx who traced most clearly the connection between this spiritual crisis and the economic upheavals of his day. As he and Friedrich Engels wrote in this breathtaking passage from the Communist Manifesto:

Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast-frozen relationships, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned….

Thus did industrialization beget a massive backlash — a reaction against the dizzying plenitude of open-endedness, a lurch toward some antidote to the jarring, jangling uncertainty of a world where "all that is solid melts into air." The Industrial Counterrevolution was protean and, in its many guises, captured minds of almost every persuasion. But in all its forms, it held out this promise: that political power, whether at the national or global level, could recreate the simplicity, certainty, and solidarity of preindustrial life. The appeal of that promise powered a disastrous century of collectivist experimentation.

The promise of redemption through politics — of reintegration into some larger whole — was present even in the milder incarnations of the collectivist impulse. As against the "chaos" and "anarchy" of the market order, a central state with expanded fiscal and regulatory powers offered the reassurance that somebody was "in charge." In particular, the nationalization or regulation of previously autonomous private enterprises reasserted the primacy of the group, which had always held sway in earlier times. In all the various permutations of incremental collectivism — social democracy, the welfare and regulatory state, Keynesian "fine tuning," development planning — the emotional appeal of group cohesion buttressed the intellectual arguments for greater government involvement in economic life.

But it was in the radical centralizing movements of totalitarianism that the rebellion against open-endedness overwhelmed all other considerations. Robert Nisbet, in his seminal Quest for Community, identified the rise of totalitarianism in modern times as an effort to recreate, through the state, the lost sense of community that had obtained in the premodern world. "The greatest appeal of the totalitarian party, Marxist or other," wrote Nisbet, "lies in its capacity to provide a sense of moral coherence and communal membership to those who have become, to one degree or another, victims of the sense of exclusion from the ordinary channels of belonging in society."

And in his great but too little remembered 1936 book, The Good Society, Walter Lippmann diagnosed the totalitarian threat as a "collectivist counter-revolution" against industrial society's complex division of labor. "[T]he industrial revolution," he wrote, "has instituted a way of life organized on a very large scale, with men and communities no longer autonomous but elaborately interdependent, with change no longer so gradual as to be imperceptible, but highly dynamic within the span of each man's experience. No more profound or pervasive transformation of habits and values and ideas was ever imposed so suddenly on the great mass of mankind." Opposition to that transformation, he continued, had hatched the monstrous tyrannies that at that time menaced the world:

[A]s the revolutionary transformation proceeds, it must evoke resistance and rebellion at every stage. It evokes resistance and rebellion on the right and on the left — that is to say, among those who possess power and wealth, and among those who do not…. Though these two movements wage a desperate class struggle, they are, with reference to the great industrial revolution of the modern age, two forms of reaction and counter-revolution. For, in the last analysis, these two collectivist movements are efforts to resist, by various kinds of coercion, the consequences of the increasing division of labor.

The misbegotten secular religions of totalitarianism won their devoted and ruthless followings by offering an escape from the stresses of modernity — specifically, from the agoraphobic panic that liberal open-endedness roused. They aspired to "re-enchant" the world with grand dreams of class or racial destiny — dreams that integrated their adherents into communities of true believers, and elevated them from lost souls to agents of great and inexorable forces. With their insidiously appealing lies, the false faiths of communism and fascism launched their mad rebellion against the liberal rigors of questioning and self-doubt — and so against tolerance and pluralism and peaceable persuasion. They inflicted upon a century their awful, evil perversion of modernity: the instrumentalities of mass production and mass prosperity twisted into engines of mass destruction and mass murder.

The liberal revolution survived the reactionary challenge. Fascism was put to rout, at horrible cost, in the great struggle of World War II; Communism was contained and waited out until it imploded, just a decade ago. And coincident with Communism's demise has come a global rediscovery of liberal ideas and institutions. Free markets and democracy have registered impressive gains around the world. However, the dead hand of the collectivist past still exerts a powerful influence: The inertia of old mindsets and vested interests blocks progress at every turn, and so our new era of globalization is a messy and sometimes volatile one. But it is an era of hope, and of possibility.

As the horrible events of September 11 made clear, we are not yet finished with the totalitarian threat. In the tragic, broken societies of the Islamic world — where free markets have gained little foothold, and democracy even less — radical hostility to modernity still festers on a large scale. And it has given rise to a distinctive form of totalitarianism: one that uses a perverted form of religious faith, rather than any purely secular ideology, as its reactionary mythos. For the past quarter-century, radical Islamist fundamentalism has roiled the nations in which it arose. Now it has reached out to wage a direct, frontal assault on its antithesis — its "Great Satan": the United States.

Despite the trappings of religious fervor, Islamist totalitarianism is strikingly similar to its defunct, secular cousins. It is an expression, not of spirituality, but of anomie: in particular, a seething resentment of Western prosperity and strength. Consider the origins of the Muslim Brotherhood. Founded in 1928 to resist the British presence in Egypt, the Brotherhood was the original radical Islamist terror network. As detailed in David Pryce-Jones' powerful The Closed Circle, the official account of its formation records this statement at the group's initial meeting: "We know not the practical way to reach the glory of Islam and serve the welfare of Muslims. We are weary of this life of humiliation and restriction. Lo, we see that the Arabs and the Muslims have no status and dignity."

And — just like its Communist and fascist predecessors — Islamist totalitarianism seeks redemption through politics. It is animated by the pursuit of temporal power: the destruction of the "decadent" (i.e., liberal) West and creation of a pan-Islamic utopian state featuring unrestrained centralization of authority. Whether the utopian blueprint calls for mullahs, commissars, or Gauleiters to wield absolute power is of secondary importance: It is the utopian idea itself — the millennial fantasy of a totalitarian state — that unites all the radical movements of the Industrial Counterrevolution.

The point bears emphasis. Radical Islamist fundamentalism not does content itself with mere rejection of the West's alleged vices. If that were all there was to it, its program might be simply to stage a retreat from modernity's wickedness — to do, in other words, what the Amish have done. But Islamist totalitarianism, though it claims otherworldly inspiration, is obsessed with worldly power and influence. It does not merely reject the West; it wants to beat the West at its own game of worldly success. Osama bin Laden is constantly claiming that the United States is weak and can be defeated; he and his colleagues lust for power and believe they can attain it. And so, although it attempts to appropriate a particular religious tradition, Islamist totalitarianism is not, at bottom, a religious movement. It is a political movement — a quest for political power.

Indeed, Islamist fundamentalism shares with other totalitarian movements a commitment to centralization not just of political power, but of economic control as well. Consider Iran, where the first and greatest victory for Islamist totalitarianism was won. As Shaul Bakhash describes in his Reign of the Ayatollahs:

[T]he government took over large sectors of the economy through nationalization and expropriation, including banking, insurance, major industry, large-scale agriculture and construction, and an important part of foreign trade. It also involved itself in the domestic distribution of goods. As a result, the economic role of the state was greatly swollen and that of the private sector greatly diminished by the revolution.

Today, the sectaries of radical Islamism continue to uphold various collectivist strains of "Islamic economics" — trumpeted as righteous alternatives to the secular and individualist corruption of "Eurocentric" globalization.

Before the September 11 attacks, it appeared that Islamist totalitarianism was a movement in decline. In the decades since the Iranian revolution, formidable Islamist opposition movements have built up around the Islamic world, but totalitarian regimes have come to power only in the Sudan and Afghanistan — backwaters even by regional standards. Elsewhere, insurgencies have been crushed (in Syria) or at least brutally repressed (in Algeria, Egypt, and Chechnya). In Iran, revolutionary fervor steadily gave way to disillusionment and cynicism; the reformist government of Mohammed Khatami has moved gingerly toward a more moderate course.

In the wake of September 11, it is unclear whether the U.S. military response will precipitate a new wave of radicalization in the Islamic world — one which might topple existing regimes and bring totalitarians to power. It is unclear whether terrorists will be able to outmaneuver the escalation of security and intelligence activity now underway, and bring off further successful attacks in the United States or elsewhere. It is, in short, unclear what further horrors must be endured, at home and around the world, because of Islamist totalitarianism.

But this much is clear: The United States is now at war with the totalitarians of radical Islamism. And in prior conflicts with the totalitarian impulse of the Industrial Counterrevolution, the United States has been undefeated. Americans triumphed first over fascism, then over Communism — movements with ideologies of potentially global appeal, and with political bases in militarily formidable great powers. Americans will rise again to this latest challenge. Unlike its predecessors, radical Islamism speaks only to the disaffected minority of a particular region, and none of the governments of that region holds any hope of prevailing against the resolute exercise of U.S. power. However long the present war must last, and however costly it must be, the final outcome cannot be doubted: interment of Islamist totalitarianism in what President Bush so stirringly referred to as "history's unmarked grave of discarded lies."



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To: independentmind
You make the mistake of thinking that all TRUTH can be determined through reason and matter. And calling the Catholic faith nothing but superstition is, if nothing else, incredibly ignorant.

I am a very open minded person. I would love for you to explain to me, what falculty you use to know something is true, if you do not use the faculty of reason? If your idea of faith is not synonymous with superstition, please explain the difference.?

Hank

181 posted on 09/30/2001 6:49:39 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: cicero's_son
Mushcamp wants to build some more unadorned glass boxes? Yuk. I will limit myself to aesthetics. Modernism is here to stay in a larger sense, whether we like it or not. The die is cast.
182 posted on 09/30/2001 7:03:59 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Hank Kerchief
I recently posted an article that discusses the very question you raise.

Secondly, the world in theory must be held to be always the same. The method requires this. The crisis of exegesis is a crisis of the philosophical presuppositions that guide its method by which it reaches conclusions such as that Jesus did not affirm His own divinity. "The problem of exegesis is connected ... with the problem of philosophy. The indigence of philosophy ... has turned into the indigence of our faith. The faith cannot be liberated if reason itself does not open up again." Reason, in other words, knowing itself, must see that it is grounded in what is, over which it has no control. What is controls what we know and not vice versa. The exclusion any reality, however, is contrary to the object of reason itself . "Human reason is not an autonomous absolute." Ratzinger thinks that scholastic philosophy in the Twentieth Century in a sense failed because it tried to do the impossible, that is, provide a totally rational ground of the faith that a priori excluded the possibility of faith's openness to reason.

Yet, it was reality, not reason, that decided that to which reason was open. And reality included the reality of God and His activity in time. Faith cares for and about reason. "It is not the lesser function of the faith to care for reason as such. It does not do violence to it; it is not external to it; rather, it makes it return to itself." Thus, faith can liberate reason from itself by asking it questions that it could not itself have anticipated, yet about which it can consider. "Reason will not be saved without the faith, but the faith without reason will not be human."

On understanding Current Intellectual Movements-Cardinal Ratzinger on the Modern Mind
183 posted on 09/30/2001 7:12:20 PM PDT by independentmind
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To: independentmind
The once great militant Arab civilization is fighting for survival, desperately.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World. Meanwhile, the West, traditionally identified as Christian, is dying out, mainly because we aren't reproducing ourselves.

You comment is not a negation of his. The truth is, the old militant Arab civilization is fighting a losing battle for survival, and the main "attack", although the attackers themselves don't even know they're attacking anything(or perhaps they're attacking Christianity and the effect splashes onto Islam), is in the culture. Western culture has such influence that other cultures, such as Islam, are being flooded with new elements they cannot absorb without losing the things that were most important to their traditional self-definitions.

But the West itself contains some tendencies that might, if left unchanged, bring about a Rome-style decline(the early stages have probably begun, but we are by no means close to the point of no return). If Islam can survive its immediate crises, it just might win. Or maybe not.

184 posted on 09/30/2001 7:14:12 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
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To: A.J.Armitage
I'm not so sure I agree, A.J. All great civilizations care about posterity; a culture that values life and family and is able to convert new members shows signs to me of being interested in the future. The secular West at the moment seems to be most interested in immediate gratification. One sure sign of this is the steep decline in birth rates.
185 posted on 09/30/2001 7:18:26 PM PDT by independentmind
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To: Torie
The fact is that Catholic as well as Protestant colonies contributed militia forces to the French and Indian War as they had to do it for: 1. Their own protection, particularly from the Indians allied with the French. 2. As colonies of Britain, they were required to fight the enemies of the Crown in their territory. 3. The Congregationalists fought alongside Roman Catholics and Anglicans in the War for Independence. Your theory that the Congregationalists wanted to drive out all Papists, and that is why we fought the French and Indian War is erroneous, as there were already Catholics in the other colonies. John Glover was a fierce Congregationalist in 1776, and an officer in Washington's army, fighting alongside Catholics and Anglicans. Glover's Massachusetts fisherman took Washington across the Delaware in 1776.

Sure the French were Catholics, so the Congregationalists wouldn't like them, but the Congregationalists also had disputes with Anglicans, Presbyterians, and other denominations. Numerically, Congregationalists were a minority in the nation as a whole.

186 posted on 09/30/2001 7:24:58 PM PDT by roughrider
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To: roughrider
The information that I posted on this thread about the French and Indian War is from Crucible of War: The Seven Years' War and the Fate of Empire in British North America, 1754-1766, a book by Fred Anderson. You really should read it, and then you will appreciate what I am talking about.
187 posted on 09/30/2001 7:33:23 PM PDT by Torie
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To: independentmind
The secular West at the moment seems to be most interested in immediate gratification. One sure sign of this is the steep decline in birth rates.

It would be better to say large portions of the West. Or maybe you have the same distinction in mind I do when you use the phrase "secular West", which would be different from the Christian West.

Perhaps the same distinction is at work in Islam? The moderate Muslims, on the one hand, have picked up our bad habits, while the radical Muslims prefer the bad habits they've inherated from their ancestors. Their bad habits, such as killing infidels and political backwardness, aggressive bad habits, aren't the kind that are fatal to a civilization, unless they lead you to attack another civilization strong enough to crush you with minimal effort, which they've done, although we probably won't actually destroy them. It would be easy for us: nuke Mecca. We did it to the old Japanese culture when we made the emperor admit he wasn't god. The root of a culture is the cult, the religion, or, in more secular terms, the framework the world is seen through.

188 posted on 09/30/2001 7:44:26 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
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To: cicero's_son
Thanks for the Muschamp. At first I didn't see what you were talking about because I couldn't really take him seriously. But now I understand your point. There is something criminally stupid about the man. He seems to be first of all a pseud or a poser, writing what people might take as a clever parody of what one imagines architectural criticism to be. Secondly, he's a huckster or tout trying to get commissions for his pals. An architect has to have something of the destroyer in him as well as a builder, but there is something ghoulish in Muschamp's response to what happened. Finally he's a bit of a raver, and here I can understand your anger, since he's not just denying the pernicious effects of some of the modern, "progressive" architects but also be denies the destructive side of modern "progressive" culture and politics. That whole bit about "progressive" vs. "regressive" would be very funny if it didn't contain in it so much of the ugliness, shallowness and emptiness of the age.

Smartertimes.com picked out some of the same things you did. If the Times is smart, they'll get Jane Jacobs to write a response to this. But would she even bother with it?

The fascinating thing about the US is that it seems to be so many things to people. There is so much that is good and valuable about the country. But some people, when they come to rediscover America, seem to value it precisely in so far as it overturns older moral norms, values and systems. There's so much of value in our American freedom. It allows us to practice religion freely, to raise families, live together in communities, make just laws, provide for ourselves. To do what people have always done with with more freedom here, more comfort or security there. But I don't trust those who emphasize the destructive or even the transforming aspect of our freedom.

Our journalistic warriors seem to be building consensus around how different our wealth and freedom make us from the rest of the world. It might be well to reflect on our continuity with past generations as something which keeps us human and gives us something in common with other people. I don't want to sing Kumbaya and talk about the brotherhood of man, etc., but can't help thinking that the present conflict ought to be more about the immediate and human dangers and losses than about abstract and impersonal ideas and systems and forces. Impersonal forces may be used and may bring good, but one can't wholly trust them and ought not wholly to devote oneself to them or demand that others do so.

189 posted on 09/30/2001 8:26:21 PM PDT by x
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To: x ... BUMPING!

190 posted on 09/30/2001 9:23:50 PM PDT by Askel5
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Comment #191 Removed by Moderator

Comment #192 Removed by Moderator

To: Otto DeFay
Arabs weren't very militant for hundreds of years. They were subjects of the Ottoman Empire.

But the Turks had adopted the same culture. The Arabs saw them as fellow Muslims and sons of Isaac.

193 posted on 09/30/2001 10:02:05 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage
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To: Otto DeFay

Jude Wanniski calls them the Evil Empire, for this and also for the high human toll that IMF policies bring about.

Thanks. Jude is correct on this, as he usually is on many things. He is a great mind. But then, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that enormous VAT taxes will stifle an emerging economy.

194 posted on 10/01/2001 5:34:38 AM PDT by Zviadist
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To: Torie

Among other things, most of the ecnomic basket case countries have no effective revenue collection system. Their societies are simply too corrupt to effect that. Russia is a prime example. So a policy prescription of raising taxes, even assuming arguendo such were desired, would be a chimera.

Fair enough. You have given a civil answer and I will respond in a like manner. I understand the argument, but emerging economies I monitored closely functioned best and created the most wealth, most evenly spread, when collection was given a back seat in favor of near elimination of taxes, including VAT. Evidence: Albania 1993-1995, the highest growth rates in Europe and probably on earth. Great economic success was due to near absense of taxation and acceptance that whatever taxes were due would likely not be collected. Places like Hungary, which had good enforcement in relative terms and a very high tax and VAT rate, experienced considerable contraction of their economies, to the point where they are still not back to pre-1989 levels. High taxes in emerging economies is a recipe for corruption, economic disparity, and disaster.

Regards,

195 posted on 10/01/2001 5:40:17 AM PDT by Zviadist
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci

Gray Article

Thanks!

196 posted on 10/01/2001 5:42:36 AM PDT by Zviadist
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To: x

The fascinating thing about the US is that it seems to be so many things to people. There is so much that is good and valuable about the country. But some people, when they come to rediscover America, seem to value it precisely in so far as it overturns older moral norms, values and systems.

I am afraid I have nothing substantive to add other than this is a brilliant observation, and one I have experienced in a different way as a long-term American abroad. America was, especially to the reconstituted left in the former communist world, the apex of progressivity. Any repulsive policy or sex-filled culture or other rot that occured in their country and happened to be regarded negatively by the local population was defended fiercely as "just like in America." They, likely as a function of necessity, though perhaps for more devious reasons, could not help to slice the slice of America they could most use.

Anyway, wonderful little truism here. Thanks.

197 posted on 10/01/2001 6:41:30 AM PDT by Zviadist
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To: Askel5
“Say the Rosary every day to obtain peace for the world and the end of the war... If they do what I tell you, many souls will be saved, and there will be peace. The war is going to end [World War I]. But if they do not stop offending God, another and worse one will begin in the reign of Pius XI... When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that it is the great sign that God gives you that He is going to punish the world for its crimes by means of war, of hunger, and of persecution of the Church and of the Holy Father. “To prevent this, I come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If they listen to my requests, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. If not, she will scatter her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; many nations will be annihilated.

Not obviously poignant, but nevertheless possibly enlightening to those of us who might disagree with the author's contention (and that of GW himself) that we are at war with people who's motivations are primarily envy and totalitarian fervor against antithetical cultures(as if!).

The old saying applies about the lobster jumping out of the pot of boiling water, yet remains to be cooked alive if the temperature is raised gradually. We live in such a moral dump these days many people don't realize it; we've become acclimated to our decay and decadence. What's truly interesting about Our Lady's message to the children is that it was delivered to Portugal--The West. And the war was to punish us. Clearly does not jive with our self-congratulatory cheerleaders here on FR. I know that prophecies from Our Lady has little cache in the realm of politics, I thought you might enjoy this.

198 posted on 10/01/2001 7:52:47 AM PDT by medusa
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Comment #199 Removed by Moderator

To: Torie
Not so fast, professor. The Mississippi and Illinois river valleys were predominantly settled by French Catholics. They were ethnically cleansed in the 1820s -1830s.
200 posted on 10/01/2001 12:09:56 PM PDT by eniapmot
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