[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

Does God every promise that harm or troubles will never come your way? Let's look at what the scriptures say.

John 16:33
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

2 Corinthians 6:1-10
1 As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain.
2 For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
3 We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our ministry will not be discredited.
4 Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses;
5 in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger;
6 in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love;
7 in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left;
8 through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors;
9 known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed;
10 sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.

Matthew 24:9

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."

And finally, words of Wisdom from Solomon.

Ecclesiates 9:12

Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come: As fish are caught in a cruel net, or birds are taken in a snare, so men are trapped by evil times that fall unexpectedly upon them.

I can think of no better way to refer to those who perished on September 11th than "evil times that fall unexpectedly".

God does not promise us physical protection, but he does provide comfort and love here on earth and eternal life to those that believe.

[greggy]

Matthew 24:9

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."

You failed to conclude that passage with "...but the one who endures to the end will be saved"- v13. Why did you do that? Because it contradicts your doctrine that we have no choice in the matter.

Let me address this entire point one more time and I will not address it any further, because in my mind it is so clear that you would need people on a news group (or FR) to write endless posts to convince you otherwise.

Why did Jesus die on the cross? To save all man kind from sin and the result of sin, death in hell.

Why do not all men come to Jesus for this salvation? Because they need to choose.

Why are not all Christians healed of every disease and every sickness since Jesus paid the price for such deliverance already? Because, believe it or not, their will is involved.

So it is with the passage you quote. There are Christians that will be martyred. But that does not mean it was God's choice for them. Jesus never said that, "It is God's good pleasure that you die for my name's sake." But your use of this passage is clearly intended to imply this is what Jesus meant to say.

A case in point. Remember the Canary Island 747 collision years ago? Two 747s crashed into each other on the runway. The cabins filled with smoke. As I understand the story- as my sister related it to me- a Christian in one of the smoke filled cabins heard people screaming and cursing at God for the disaster that was bringing death to them quickly. He realized there was no way out, so he lifted his hands and began to praise God. Instantly, God translated him and he was sitting on the wing of the aircraft in safety. Now he had a choice to make. He could have done any number of things. But he chose to trust God. He was the only one to do so. He was the only one miraculously saved.

Remember David and Ziklag? He had a choice. He and his men cried until they could not cry any longer. The men were getting ready to kill David because they blamed him for what happened. He finally realized that crying was not going to move God and he began to praise God. That is what moves God. Praise and Worship are the HIGHEST forms of prayer. Here is the point. HAD DAVID NOT PRAISED GOD, HE WOULD HAVE DIED!!! He had a choice to make, and so do each of you.

Remember David and Goliath? David was the only man that made the decision to trust in his covenant with God. Each of those men had the same covenant with God, but David was the only one to choose to trust God. The point is that they all had the choice to make, and they each had the same opportunity to be the hero for their nation. But only David chose wisely.

Faith is what pleases God. If you doubt He will save you from anything for a moment, then you are doubting and that displeases God. It is really that simple, folks.