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SD, you missed my question. And you seem to be avoiding the answer with anger. Why does it offend you so?? What if you attended the local Catholic church at the time of the Inquisition and Crusades that was performing these things. Would you be for it or against it? You have said that they were wrong, but you refuse to answer the question. Would you blindly follow that church?

I am also on the same side as you with reference to ordaining women, and I would not join a church that does.

"Do you think the Church was wrong to try to rescue the Holy Lands from the clutches of barbarian Muslims? Do you not perceive the threat to western civilization (but I repeat myself), to Christendom from Islam?"

Yes, the Crusades were absolutely wrong. Christ tells us not to resort to violence. We are to turn the other cheek. We are not to kill those who do not convert. That is NOT Christ's testimony.

JM

What if you attended the local Catholic church at the time of the Inquisition and Crusades that was performing these things. Would you be for it or against it? You have said that they were wrong, but you refuse to answer the question. Would you blindly follow that church?

You still seem to think that the Church was in control of the Inquisitions. It was not. This makes the question mostly moot. But let's pretend.

If I, 21st Century Dave, were transported back in time to Spain, would I support a Church which did these things. No, I don't think so. Torturing people to make them convert is not my idea of a good thing.

But there were very few people with 21st century ideas in their heads at that time. This is the point you all seem to miss. Were your Churches in existence in barbaric times, they would surely act the part. It is convenient to look back with modern eyes and tsk tsk things.

Yes, the Crusades were absolutely wrong. Christ tells us not to resort to violence. We are to turn the other cheek. We are not to kill those who do not convert. That is NOT Christ's testimony.

Are you a pacifist? Do you think Jesus was? The Crusades were not to "kill those who do not convert" but to eliminate the threat creeping Islam presented to Europe. By active self-defense, much like America vows to do today. The wars in the Balkans are partly fed from this same tension between civilization and Islam. Defending civilization from Islam is not a crime. I will disagree with you here 100 per cent.