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To: vmatt
This isn't just thinking, this is biblical. To deny this is to deny the bible, which you already do. If it is innaccurate as you say, to be offended would be an over reaction to a fable.

I deny the inspiration of the Christian scriptures, and I disagree with your interpretation of the Hebrew scriptures. This is a far cry from denying the Bible. It is offensive because these sorts of statements contributed to the torture and murder of my people. You are just as dead if you are killed because of a fable.

Let me demonstrate how this works. Jews supposedly rejected, tortured and killed Jesus. Christians believe that Jesus is not just a rejected Messiah, but God himself. So, the Jews killed the Christian God. What could possibly motivate, and what could possibly be an appropriate punishment, for the crime of deicide? They have hardened their hearts and refuse to admit what they know deep inside to be true--that Jesus is messiah and God. The Jews therefore must be evil. Furthermore, they cried out for the crime of killing God be on their hands and on their children. Therefore they deserve whatever punishment can be meted out upon them. In medieval times, it was common for Christians, after hearing the gospel readings on Good Friday condemning the Jews, to pour out of the churches and attack Jewish persons and property.

ANGELO: Question #1: who killed Jesus?

VMATT: Judas, whom the Jewish priests paid, I believe carried the lions share of the responsibility.

Wrong. The Romans executed Jesus. According to Christian theology, are the Jews solely responsible for the death of Jesus? No! If you accept Christian doctrine, then you must accept that YOU are responsible for the death of Jesus. YOUR sins. YOU rejected him, tortured him and killed him. YOU are just as culpable as those who drove the nails through his hands and feet.

But its easier, and less discomfiting, to blame the Jews, isn't it?

ANGELO: Question #2: who recorded the comments supposedly made by the Jewish crowd against Jesus?

VMATT: The gospel writers, eyewitnesses and having access to eye witnesses.

The apostles fled after the arrest of Jesus. They were in no position to be eyewitnesses to most of the subsequent events. That aside, it obviously is Christians who wrote these words. There is no Roman or Jewish records of the events. There is only the Christian side, and there is only a pretense of objectivity. By the time the gospels (and especially John) were written, there was already bad blood between the Jewish and the Christian communities. All we have are the writings of a Christian who said the Jews said these things. If his objective in doing so was to turn sentiment against the Jews, he succeeded beyond his expectations. The consequence was century after century of marginalization, denial of basic civil rights, slander, threats, intimidation, assault, torture, ghettos, pogroms, forced expulsions, murders, property destruction, property seizures, and forced conversions. All, ironically, in the name of the Jew Jesus.

77 posted on 09/28/2001 7:50:01 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: angelo
"Wrong. The Romans executed Jesus. According to Christian theology, are the Jews solely responsible for the death of Jesus? No! If you accept Christian doctrine, then you must accept that YOU are responsible for the death of Jesus. YOUR sins. YOU rejected him, tortured him and killed him. YOU are just as culpable as those who drove the nails through his hands and feet."

You are correct in that the Romans performed the execution, but it was the Jews who chose Barabbus over Christ, thereby condemning Him to death. You are also correct in saying that the Jews aren't entirely responsible for His death. All who reject Christ are guilty of His blood.

How do you interpret this verse?
Zechariah 12:10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn."

JM
89 posted on 09/28/2001 8:26:03 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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