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I Need Help in Countering This Anti-1980's College Propaganda
Signs of Life in The USA | 9/27/01 | Laurence Shames

Posted on 09/27/2001 9:32:09 AM PDT by gopno1

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To: all
The decade of greed: 80s saw the weakening of the Soviet Empire and the policies that brought communism to it's knees in the early 90s.

Ask your teacher if she thinks that the minority populations, specifcally blacks, should give all the gains back to suit her white liberal values. (Black income gains were huge during the Reagan years)

With a wink: Now, mrs x, are you saying that greed is bad? Greed is a very emotive emotionally charged word that a partisan would use. What your reeeeeeeeaaaaallllyy sayin is you are against individual responsibility.

21 posted on 09/27/2001 10:01:28 AM PDT by rbmillerjr
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To: Ratatoskr
Along those lines, I've been searching for some statistics on the 80's which I saw a few years ago. Basically, it indicated that the percent increase in salary(wealth?) for the lower income brackets was higher than for the upper brackets. That doesn't mean that the absolute gap didn't grow, but that the lower incomes were rising at a higher rate.

For example: I make $100, you make $10. If my income increases by 10% and yours increases by 30%, then I'm at $110 and you are at $13, so the gap still widens, even thought you have a much higher percentage increase.

I'm going to keep looking for these stats ...

22 posted on 09/27/2001 10:07:17 AM PDT by KayEyeDoubleDee
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To: balrog666
Courage and an F in English Comp will do more damage to your GPA than silence and an A. There are times to fight and times to avoid the fight and judging from this ditz of an instructor it's time to avoid it. I would rather choose my battles where I am debating someone with an open mind and I have a better chance of getting my point across than take on this hopeless excuse for an educator. You, on the other hand, would jump in and debate her until the cows come home without a hope in hell of changing her viewpoints. Then you would suffer the consequences and call it courage. And you call me a fool.
23 posted on 09/27/2001 10:07:22 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: gopno1
Ask your teacher that if greed is sooo bad, why doesn't she insist on a pay cut with the cut to be given to the poor.

As far as the 80's vs the 90's in comparison. if 80's are greed, then the 90's is the decade of Greed and corruption. Bill Clinton was bought and sold by money.

Give them all a test to see which decade was worse, just Greed or Greed and Corruption: Give them a choice between Reagan and Clinton.

What President sold the Lincoln bedroom for campain contributions?
What President spent more days fundraising then actually in the White house?
What President pardoned American Traitor Marc Rich for money before he left office?
What President was involved in fundraising scandals?
What President took illegal campain money from the Communist Chinese?
What Vice-President illegally accepted money from Buddist monks who swore an oath to poverty?
What Vice President headed up Airline safety, rejected a $4 increase tax for anti-terrorist measures and was rewarded with DNC contributions for his Presidential bid from TWA, United and American Airlines in 1998?
Which President murdered 4 people in a bogus cruise missle attack in order from keeping his girlfriends testimony off the front page?
What Administration is considered the most corrupt in American History? (if they say Reagan, demand list of all of his scandels vs. Clinton.
Which Law Professor President was impeached for lying under oath and later fined $80 grand and disbarred from practicing law?
If Iran-Contra was soooo terrible, why wasn't Reagen Impeached for it like Bill Clinton?

Then go for the throat

If Greed is soooooo bad, why are you all going to collage in order to get a degree to get a higher paying job? Why not all be noble and work for minimum wage for McDonalds? After all, more money just means more greed does it not?

REMEMBER: Thoses that can do! Those who can't Teach!

24 posted on 09/27/2001 10:08:51 AM PDT by Bommer
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To: gopno1
IMHO, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. You'll probably be encountering this leftist crap for the rest of the time you're in this school.

I have gotten advice to just take it and get out of there and be done with it, but I just can't do it. This needs to be combatted.

Well, if you enjoy banging your head against the wall, carry on. Understand, your professor, rightly or wrongly, considers you to be inferior to her. Nothing's going to change her mind on this point. And, following the logic, nothing you say is going to change her leftist views.

Ever heard of Hillsdale College?

25 posted on 09/27/2001 10:09:08 AM PDT by upchuck
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To: Southack
I remember the Wall Street Journal saying some of the same things. Japanese were kicking our a$$, and it wasn't just the lefties who were worried about our economy being overtaken by Japan's.
26 posted on 09/27/2001 10:09:48 AM PDT by Zeroisanumber
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To: gopno1
I would strongly recommend that you pick up a copy of George Gilder's Wealth and Poverty and take a couple of days to read it from cover to cover. When you are done, wait a week and read it from cover to cover a second time. Anything you need to know about the fundamentals of supply-side economics will be etched in your memory at this point.

I would also suggest you do some research on the Spanish philosopher Jose Ortega y Gassett, particularly his works from the 1930s regarding the people he called the "modern barbarians." His outlook is basically as follows (I paraphrase, making changes to apply it in a modern context):

The modern barbarian is a person who looks just like anyone else -- he gets up and goes to work every day, lives an affluent suburban life, and drives a nice car or two. He is a dangerous man in spite of his professional skills, though, because he is thoroughly ignorant about the complexities of economics, supply chains, and the effort it takes to deliver a finished product to him. He is dangerous because his ignorance leads him to believe that evrything he sees on the supermarket shelf is a part of nature instead of the result of a productive process. He is dangerous because his response to a bread shortage is to burn the bakery down.

One word of warning, though -- as you go through life you are going to be amazed (and disappointed) at just how few "intelligent" people can even comprehend these things and discuss them rationally. My guess is that your current class is geared toward a 12 year-old mind.

27 posted on 09/27/2001 10:10:24 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: balrog666
Great name, Balrog666. Right up there with SauronOfMordor.
29 posted on 09/27/2001 10:11:38 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: gopno1
I too abandoned a major (History) because of the Marxist crap being taught. I have always regreted having to do so, but I wouldn't have lasted a year, then (1960s) or now. May I suggest a double major in History and Economics? This is the viewpoint of the future and you might find some fellow travelers in the Economics department. The thought just occurred to me that if I went back for a double masters as above, I would have about 3 or so years to torment those wacky Marxists in the history department. You might look at Hudson.org, a libertarian foundation. Hell, give Allen Sanders a call at the above foundation and he can point you in the right direction. There is a substantial amount of data available (due to the PC revolution). Another good source is the IMF, look for the gdp growth rates and related information. Good hunting.
30 posted on 09/27/2001 10:12:09 AM PDT by TexanToTheCore
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To: gopno1
From -- http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/~hal/pages/sciam.html -- a Scientific American article, by Hal. R. Varian - the Dean of the School of Information Management and Systems at the University of California at Berkeley, also a Professor in the Haas School of Business, a Professor in the Department of Economics, and he holds the Class of 1944 Professorship.
During the 1980s, 28,000 for-profit information libraries sprang up in the U.S. alone. Every week more than 50 million people visit these facilities, where they can rent 100 gigabytes of information for only two or three dollars a day.

Although these video rental stores faced many of the same problems of standards, intellectual-property protection, and pricing that the Internet faces today, the industry grew from nothing to $10 billion a year in only a decade.

Ask the bozo what their annual video store rental fees were for any of the years of the 1980s. If the bozo rented any videos, they contributed to the "decade of excess" or whatever they are calling the '80s.

From http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_40/b3649004.htm -- The Internet Economy: the World's Next Growth Engine -- "... Japanese cars took a large share of the U.S. market in the early 1980s..." Did the bozo know anyone working the auto industry -- they didn't have it so good in the beginning of the 1980s. Who made the bozo's car? Betcha its foreign-made.

From http://www.fcc.gov/Speeches/Kennard/2000/spwek019.html --

In the 1980s, government broke up AT&T and opened up competition in long distance services. Investment flowed into long distance, laying the foundation for the Internet backbone.

And when technologists began to use the telephone network for "enhanced services" in the 1980s, we declined to regulate those services, paving the way for the unregulated Internet. Like our equipment decisions in the 1970s, we said that old laws should not automatically be applied to new technologies.

Ask the bozo if they use any other phone service provider other than MaBell, and if they use the Internet, and if they use any Microsoft products. If the answer is yes to any of these questions, the bozo helped contribute to the "decade of excess".

Tell the bozo that they are obviously part of the problem, being as they contributed so much to the "decade of excess". And maybe they should make a reservation on Mr. Peabody's WayBack Machine, and stop themselves from renting "Reds" every weekend in the 1980s.

31 posted on 09/27/2001 10:12:19 AM PDT by That Poppins Woman
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To: gopno1
8/15/00 (After Clinton's self-serving speech at the DNC convention)

Not the Clinton-Gore Economy
Now we remember why we call him Slick Willie.

By Stephen Moore, NR contributing editor

After listening to Bill Clinton's speech last night I was reminded of a famous quip by Mark Twain: first get your facts straight, then you can distort them all you like. Now we remember why they call him Slick Willie.

Last night Bill Clinton took credit for a long wave of economic prosperity that began ten years before he was elected and for a balanced budget that he fought tooth and nail to prevent after Republicans took Congress. To borrow a phrase from Joe Lieberman: that's chutzpah. Well here are the undistorted facts:

1) The National Bureau of Economic Research reports that we are now in the 18th year of one long wave of prosperity. It began in 1982 with the supply-side policies of Reagan - tax-rate cuts, sound money, deregulation, free trade, and victory in the cold war. Michael Cox of the Dallas Federal Reserve Board has found that over the past 200 months, since the Reagan prosperity began, the economy has been in recession just eight months, or just four percent of the time.

2) The bullish stock market began in 1982, not in 1992. Then, the Dow Jones was at 800. Today it is at 11,000.

3) It is also instructive to examine the stock market during the Clinton presidency. From 1993-95 the Dow rose from 3,200 to 3,800. But from 1995 to 2000 the Dow rose from 3,8000 to 11,000. About 90 percent of the gain in asset values happened after the Republicans took control of Congress and the markets were assured that Clintonomics would be curtailed.

4) Interest rates and inflation began their long-term tumble in the early 1980s. In 1980 mortgage interest rates hit 20 percent and the inflation rate hit eleven percent. Since the early 1980s inflation has fallen by roughly a half a percent per year. There were three people responsible for the lowering of inflation and interest rates: Reagan, Paul Volker, and Alan Greenspan.

5) Clinton boasts that his world record tax increase in 1993 caused interest rates to fall. Actually, from 1993 through November of 1994 (when Republicans won control of Congress), interest rates rose by 50 basis points.

6) When Bill Clinton entered office the economy was growing at a four percent rate (4th quarter of 1992). After Clinton's tax hike, the economy stalled to a 2.6 percent rate.

7) After two years of Clintonomics, the budget deficit was still well over $200 billion. In early 1995 the budget deficit was projected by the Congressional Budget Office to remain over $200 billion for as far as the eye could see. So much for the idea that Clinton's $500 billion tax hike balanced the budget. What changed this gloomy outlook on the budget? The GOP balanced budget plan in 1995. Who can forget 1995? In that year Bill Clinton closed down the government twice to avoid the Republican's balanced budget and the White House was forced to submit five budgets until he finally proposed one without a deficit.

To be sure, Bill Clinton does deserve some of the credit for this astonishingly resilient expansion. Where his policies have been most productive - for example, in promoting free-trade agreements, signing the Republican welfare reforms, cutting the capital-gains tax, and allowing Alan Greenspan to smother the last remnants of inflation in the financial system - he has sensibly followed the economically liberating path laid out by Reagan.

It's the Reagan economy, stupid. And the American voters know it.

32 posted on 09/27/2001 10:13:45 AM PDT by patriciaruth
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To: gopno1
If it's an English Comp class then your prof. doesn't really look for your political agreement, but rather your ability to think and write critically, whatever your opinions or thoughts happen to be. Often instructors choose controversial subjects on purpose for this reason to challenge students to think and write critically about subjects that are often frought with emotional, knee-jerk reactions. My advice to you is to take time to talk to your instructor about the best way to write about what your initial position is on the subject. You might have to re-examine parts of your position to do this while finding that you are still headed in the same general direction. But. . .THAT'S HOW YOU LEARN.
33 posted on 09/27/2001 10:18:50 AM PDT by eaglebeak
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To: gopno1
I don't know how you feel about him, but Rush Limbaugh's book (I think it's "See, I Told You So")refutes most of this bunk and sites outside references - most of the time government sources. Although I'm not a dittohead, I keep it around just for these kinds of debates. Just remember, if you use information from the book, quote the sources as reference, not him. Otherwise, no matter how accurate or relevant, you lose.
34 posted on 09/27/2001 10:19:16 AM PDT by foolish-one
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To: gopno1
These lib profs are hopeless. If they don't get it by now, especially post 9/11, they probably never will.

Consider transferring to Hillsdale or Grove City College.

35 posted on 09/27/2001 10:19:17 AM PDT by gumbo
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To: Southack
What was the gist of post 9? It's been removed. Personally I think posts should stay up unless, of course, they are personally insulting (which this may well have been) or racist (btw, there's a ton of c- jockey and t-head comments on different topics that are totally out of line, IMHO) Reason being, it generally illustrates the ignorance of the poster. And while it may not add much to the debate, it does serve as good illustration of the ignorance that pervades the various extreme left-wing (and right-wing, for that matter) groups.

As to the comment about Ozzy... Well I'm alive, at work -being productive (sorta)... and I'm wearing my Ozzy Rules t-shirt from Ozzfest.

(I liked the jab at Tipper too. hmmm. guess this was a bit off-topic. oh well.)

36 posted on 09/27/2001 10:19:44 AM PDT by billsux
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To: gopno1
There are two main ways you can fight an enemy: covert action or all out frontal assault.

Generally, the best way to wage war is with allies and in an organized militia; occasionally but rarely the loner can get some licks in, but it is better for the loner to be under the command of a higher authority so he can be directed at the richest targets and doesn't foul up or get in the way of one of the militia's ops.
Transfer to a conservative, or religious, institution of higher learning, and take your money with you. Don't be foolish enough to think that you can fight these guys alone.

37 posted on 09/27/2001 10:20:30 AM PDT by patriciaruth
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To: Non-Sequitur
"Well, you get what you pay for" and unfortunately he overheard me. Cost me an A in the class and dinged my GPA for the quarter.

That's a pretty good line... Who cares about the grade? Someone needs to knock these academia idiots back to reality now and then.

GPA doesn't mean squat after your first job out of school...

38 posted on 09/27/2001 10:21:28 AM PDT by TexRef
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To: Moleman
Certainly, like another poster put it the 90's were the decade of greed more than any other. < ... so far!

Looks to me like the 00's are instituting a brand new greed wrinkle: GROUP GREED - check out the demand for reparations, etc.

39 posted on 09/27/2001 10:22:37 AM PDT by bimbo
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To: gumbo
This is true. You are NOT going to change her mind. The hope you have is making her look like such a fool that nobody in her class will even consider her arguments as a source for their "well informed" opinions.
40 posted on 09/27/2001 10:23:17 AM PDT by foolish-one
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