I bought one for my kid too.
Posted on 09/26/2001 8:04:00 PM PDT by mn-bush-man
True. But. Unless you are one of those rare individuals with extensive training and ice water in your veins, adrenaline will have your nerves going wild. The head is a VERY small target and it is bouncing all around. It will not be easy to hit. The primary target is almost always Center Of Mass, AKA chest-abdomen.
IMO the best gun for a newbie handgunner is a modern centerfire revolver even though semi-autos generally hold more ammuntion. Studies seem to indicate that most gunfights do not involve more tha 4 or 5 shots. If you are still concerned about going dry then use the New York Reload, that is, a second gun.
Semi-autos require more training. It is a lot easier to make a bad mistake with a semi-auto than with modern sa/da revolver.
The .38 special is entirely adequate. The .357 magnum is a lot more effective.
There is a lot to say for a snub nosed revolver. One of the reasons is that if you get involved in a hand to hand struggle a small revolver, 5 shot S&W J frame or Ruger SP101, is a lot harder for your adversary to get a good grip on. S&W does have a 7 shot L frame in .38/.357 which is pretty good.
I suggest that you go to Talk section www.shooters.com for a lot more opiniated discussion on this subject.
Heritage Manufacturing OK, well, make of this what you will. It's a good pistol, and I have never seen anybody do a 1,000 round test of any firearm before. -------------------cut here----------------------
This is a basic user review of the new Heritage Stealth self-loading pistol. The test was conducted with one case (1,000 rounds) of Federal M882 ball ammunition (military surplus), 50 rounds of JP Ammo FMJ remanufactured ammunition, and 25 rounds of something else remanufactured with lead bullets. All of the ammunition was fired through the pistol with no cleaning of any part. Before the test was started, the pistol was fully cleaned and lubricated with Tetra Gun oil.
Quick summary:
Good pistol. I'm glad I bought it. It takes a little bit of getting used to its feel and operation. The trigger feel is light and constant. There were two stovepipes in the first 200 rounds, and none after that. There was one jammed case with the JP reloads which needed to be removed with a cleaning rod. At 950 rounds, I fired the remaining fifty M882 into an NRA B-27 target (man-sized) at 50 yards (that's right, yards, not feet) from a Weaver stance. There were 42 hits on the paper: 1 in ring 10, 9 in ring 9, 7 in ring 8, 9 in ring 7, 10 in the black (including one in the neck and one in the center forehead), and 6 in the white. Discounting the head and neck, there were 14 in the upper-right, 4 in the upper-left, 13 in the lower-right, and three in the lower-left black part of the target. When the gun was disassembled for cleaning, I found that the gas piston pin had broken in two. Believe it or not, this broken pin DID NOT affect the operation of the pistol at all. (More about this later)
Features:
The Heritage Stealth holds 10+1 rounds, has four different safeties (manual, open breech, magazine, and drop), stainless steel 17-4 (self-lubricating) slide and barrel, polymer frame, and a 4lb. trigger pull.
Disassembly and cleaning:
The pistol is disassembled by pressing in on both take down buttons and moving the slide back and up. The striker is removed by pushing in and rotating the back plug 90 degrees. Then it takes a little push for it to pop out. The firing pin spring is seated very firmly into the striker plug, so it's essentially one unit. There is a buffer spring in front of the striker unit. The striker itself (according to the manual) consists of the firing pin and firing pin housing. I could not easily disassemble the striker unit, so I just left it alone and cleaned the two together.
The other easily disassembled part of the slide is the gas piston. The gas piston is held in place with a pin and two buffer O-rings between the piston and the slide. The piston has a normally loose, wobbly feel to it. It doesn't need to be removed for cleaning, but if your as fussy as me, it's not that bad. Replace the gas piston by inserting the gas piston pin in part way and putting one of the O-rings over it. Put the gas piston in, then smoosh the other O-ring into place. Use a toothpick or a small wood skewer or something to get the O-ring centered. If the O-ring is not centered, it will have a section punched out of it by the gas piston pin when you move it fully into place.
The trigger mechanism and slide support assembly cannot be removed for cleaning. I know, I tried to get the barrel assembly out, and the trigger mechanism is underneath it. The best you can do is use Birchwood-Casey Powder Blast, brake cleaner, or something equivalent to spray out all the powder particles. The gas piston hole can be brushed with a 6.5mm bore brush. Use a brass brush and pipe cleaners for all of the other accessible surfaces on the barrel and slide. A pipe cleaner will fit through the firing pin hole. Wipe lubrication onto the striker assembly, gas piston, outer barrel, and slide supports. Even though the manual says that the supports don't need lubrication, it is shipped from the factory with some kind of grease on it.
Design and mechanical operation:
According to the manual, the "Stealth uses a Gas Delayed Straight Blowback Recoil System and a Striker Firing mechanism." The pistol is set to fire when the slide travels forward. The striker assembly catches on the "transfer bar" (this is what the trigger moves) and is held there in a half-cocked state. The rear pin end of the striker assembly protrudes through the striker plug, and can be easily felt with a finger to know if it is ready to fire. Squeezing the trigger will move the striker to its rear-most position, disengaging from the transfer bar, and allowing the striker to move forward on its own. When the cartridge fires, the bullet will move forward and allow gas to fill the gas piston hole. The gas pressure will keep the gas piston forward until the bullet has exited the barrel, and then the slide can travel back to complete its cycle. The slide is supported by the fixed barrel in the front and two slide supports in the rear. The trigger provides a consistent, light feel.
The Stealth has four different safeties. The manual safety is behind the trigger, and must be rotated 90 degrees for it to engage or disengage. I have small hands, and I can easily swipe it on and off with my thumb. The magazine safety engages when the magazine is sticking 1/2-inch out of the magazine well. The open breech safety "engages" when the breech is open 3/16-inch. This safety is really the byproduct of the fact that the transfer bar can't push the striker back far enough. I did not fire-test the breech safety. Not yet, anyway. The drop safety is another transfer bar/striker feature. I tried to make the striker drop by bashing the Stealth with a large rubber mallet, but it remained in the half-cocked position.
1,000 rounds:
Stovepipe jams can be cleared by dropping the magazine and racking the slide, or you can turn the pistol ejection port down and then racking the slide. The brass cannot be cleared by sweeping the slide with your palm edge because it sits too far down in the chamber. The case jam required all rounds dumped from the magazine, the empty magazine inserted and the slide pulled back to activate the slide stop. The case was removed by banging it out with a cleaning rod.
The slide had difficulty closing three times sometime past 900 rounds. The slide did not snap shut about the last quarter inch or so with two rounds of the Federal M882 ammunition (it did close, but slowly), and one round of the JP ammo (not the one which jammed) was chambered very slowly. Yeah, the chamber needed cleaning.
The sight picture actually includes seeing some of the slide top. This will initially fool the shooter into shooting WAY LOW, like at 15 yards you will get consistent crotch hits when you think that you are aiming at the chest. This happened to both me and an elderly German visitor to the club. After 15 shots he was hitting dead center, though. It was interesting watching him aim the pistol -- arms straight out, pistol upwards, then slowly lower the pistol down, then BANG! I'm sure this fellow was an officer in WW-II.
The magazine is made by Meggar. It holds ten rounds, and has slots for a magazine catch on both sides. The magazine follower catches on the unused slot during cartridge loading. The magazine catch looks as if it might be reversible, but if it really isn't, then the unused magazine slot should be removed.
The ejector nearly turns the spent cases into lethal projectiles. If you're going to save the brass for reloading, then you will develop some serious Easter egg hunting skills to find where the cases landed.
During rapid fire the frame will heat up so that a Weaver grip becomes very difficult. Expect to go through at least fifty rounds before it's too hot to handle. The trigger will also heat up. While the gas delay is good for increased velocity, it does result in a hot pistol.
The sights on the Stealth use a vertical, three bar pattern. The front sight is molded into the slide, and the rear sight is made of plastic. The rear sight needs improvement. The sight is push adjustable. I mean you can push it back and forth without the use of a tool, like a drift punch. You just need firm hand pressure. The white paint in the sights only covered about half of the slot, so I took a toothpick and scraped it out. Then I painted the sights with Bright Sights fluorescent yellow.
If you plan to be shooting this pistol for an extended period of time (like IPSC), then wear a glove. The square back end of the Stealth and the left slide disconnect button kept digging into my thumb knuckle. After the first day was through (700 rounds) I had two small patches of skin missing. The next week when I went to the range I wore my bicycling gloves.
The trigger guard is a bit small. I can't fit my military work glove near it enough to hardly move the trigger. Small ski gloves or my military dress gloves allow the trigger to be moved enough for it to fire. I am going to buy some different gloves for carrying this pistol during the winter months. I recommend a glove with no excess material at the fingertips. Perhaps a motorcycle glove would work.
Miscellaneous: The recoil spring is quite stiff, but it is necessary to chamber cartridges when the chamber is dirty. There is no decocking lever, so the pistol must be dry-fired. Dry-firing the Stealth is OK, as there is a buffer spring in front of the striker to absorb the shock. There is no external slide catch. To lock the slide back an empty magazine must be inserted, and then the slide is pulled rearward. The base of the cartridge is visible through the extractor cutout in the barrel. (Nitpick:) The firing pin is marked as #9 instead of #19 in the manual. The gas piston pin O-rings aren't listed in the manual at all.
Using the Stealth with a flashlight is almost a dream, except for one thing: If you hold a flashlight directly against the grip, the magazine falls out. What happens is that the magazine release will drop the magazine when it is pressed flush with the grip. The flashlight presses against the magazine release, and out comes the magazine. It took me two magazine drops before I figured out what was happening. If the release were already flush with the grip or slightly recessed into it, a flashlight could easily be held steady against the pistol in a good grip. As it is, the magazine drops out.
It's falling to PIECES:
During firing I found that the slide support pin (the one in the rear of the frame) kept wandering out. I had to push it back in every 100-150 rounds. Just use the side of a case to do it. It needs the same serrations on it as the pins which hold the barrel support.
The gas piston pin broke in two. Yep, it did, and I didn't notice it at all until I removed it to clean out over 1,000 rounds of carbon and gunk. There was no noticeable change in the gas piston's play, and certaintly no change in the pistol's operation. The O-rings kept both pieces of the pin from moving. One of the O-rings was still OK, and the other one looked slightly chewed. According to the lady I spoke to at Heritage, the O-rings are there just to keep the gas piston from rattling around (and without them it does make an annoying rattle).
What needs FIXING:
The size of the gas piston pin needs to be increased, and the slide support pin needs those serrations on it.
What I'd like changed:
The trigger guard could be a bit bigger for use with gloves (winter happens). A little more polishing could be done to the bolt face and surrounding metal (OK, this is just for ease of cleaning and aesthetics). A different rear sight would be nice, like, one made out of METAL. I think that the sights should be built to be removable for changing to a tritrium set. As they are now, the front sight would have to be machined off, which means sending the slide to a competent pistol smith with a fully equipped machine shop. The magazine release needs to be made flush with the grip.
The folks at the factory:
Nice people. The lady I talked to got my impressions on it, and sent out replacement O-rings and pin without me having to send my Stealth in to them. She told me that the design is the same one used by a South African military pistol. They licensed the design from them, and then spent two and a half years developing the Stealth.
Impression:
Its a very, very good, cheap, reliable pistol. I think that it was much cleaner and reliable than my brother's CZ-85 after I fired 1,000 rounds through it without cleaning. The slide never failed to lock back, the trigger never felt sluggish or gritty, it just worked and worked, nice and light, aside from three jams. That's what, 0.3% jam rate, right? Not bad at all. I like it. I'm packing it.
They are basically nothing more or less than a used Colt. I would recommend staying away from the poorer grades. The clean ones are among the best 45's ever. The Argentines used Swedish Steel which at the time weighed slightly more than U.S. grades, for that reason, an Argentine Colt will weigh slightly more.
Another great buy are the Argentine Browning Hi-powers. These are basically the same story as the Colts. Argentina went to the expense of licensing their Brownings from FN rather than just copying them. The result was full technical support from FN.
I have two Argentine Brownings (It is technically correct and legal to call them Browning) The finish is good but not great. Internally they are absolutely identical to my 1969 era commercial Hi-power, even having the same patterns of tool marks on the barrel locking cam. They clearly were built under Browning supervision.
These Argentine Brownings shoot every bit as good if not a little better than the Belgian made ones and that is very good indeed.
Forget any automatic. Unless you are trained, practice often and maintain the weapon in meticulous fashion you will run the risk of jamming or stove piping after the first round. If you are willing to seek the right training and maintain you skills then there are a number of autos that will work. The best hand gun ever is the m1911 .45 acp. Almost a century of smooth, accurate knock-down power. But, I would hesitate to use this power in a home environment, especially with others in the house. Although I own a variety of personal defense weapons the one I keep at hand in the house is a S&W model 40 2in revolver. I use a Federal 138g load with pre-fragmented hp. The low load provides knock down power, the bullet mushrooms then breaks up so there is no through and through. These pistols will fire time after time with little or no maintenance. If you need more than 5 or six shots then you've already lost.
As for shotguns, try turning the corner at the bottom of the stairs, at 3:00 a.m., when you are scared and inexperienced. In situations like that close quarter target acquisition becomes a nightmare.
No matter what you decide to do, make sure you get the proper training. Good luck.
I like and use a .45 for home protection. It seems simple to me that the bullet with the largest cross section will deliver the most stopping power.
For around $300 dollars, I would recommend a good used revolver .38 Special or larger.
Many folks will recommend a shotgun. Two things to consider; At normal in-home ranges, the shotgun shot will have virtually no expansion, and carrying, maneuvering and pointing a 28" to 36" shotgun through your home during a highly stressful time will be difficult. Try moving around your home with a shotgun length stick, in the dark, in a big hurry.
The most important thing I can suggest to you is to take Plus P Technology's Basic Handgun Self Defense Course.
This course will teach you about shooting in self defense, but more importantly he teaches the MN legal aspects of when you can shoot, when you can't, what to do if you are involved in a self defense shooting. This will surprise you greatly.
Darrell holds the classes in Burnsville pretty much at your connivance and you can retake the course as a refresher for life, the course costs $95.
This course meets the MN requirements for a Concealed Carry Weapon Permit "CCW". I also had to take the MN DNR hunter safety course to qualify for a CCW.
Other than a satisfied customer, I have no connection with Plus P. Plus P's phone is 612-660-4263, Cell 612-396-2745 The web site is p://www.plusp.com/indexb.html
If you are interested, I have a few handguns and would be happy to let you try them out. Robert Lundquist "RJL"
Good post! About time someone put the shotgun as your primary home defense weapon in proper perspective
handguns are anemic, defensive weapons. none of them have what could be called "knock-down" power. Put it this way- if the recoil is negligible, so is the terminal impactWOW! You've never fired a .454 before have you ;-)
Auto-Ordnance you can't beat Thompson!
NSWU8 Panama had a name for the issue 9mm Beretta (sp) jam-in-the-sand-Beretta, They use sig very nice but for 9mm I think you can't go wrong with H&K
mn-Bush-man, it's the single-action 1911 in .45 ACP. Everything else is a questionable afterthought. Find a decent used one for about as much as you have said you'll spend.
If you insist on something else, I have a first-generation Glock 17 that I'll sell you with two hi-cap mags. It'll be more than $300, though.
After seeing the posts, I'm interested in the one shown in #124. I'm sure this won't shoot necks off glass bottles at 20-30 yards, no matter how much you practice, but for close range panic situations, I'll concede it will beat a well-aimed .22 magnum hollow point.
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