[Torie]

You have made a point, but actually some of the Muslim countries are quite rich, and still quite fundamentalist. And Hinduism exhibited no such belligerence, and it resided in one of the poorest and most miserable places on the planet until recently for a very long time.

[Anonymous2]

in both cases you must seperate realities: both religions have a 'caste' type of system, both basically creating 2nd and 3rd tier citizens by the nature of their government and their religion. there is no middle class of any proportion in the totalitarian islamic regimes, which perpetuates a need for a false, albeit (?) comforting effect derived from *religion*.

[Common Tator]

Muslim countries are quite rich, and still quite fundamentalist

My point, very poorly made, is the in many cases religion is about power and the domination of peoples. It is not all that much about saving souls. I focused on how religious governments leverage religious power in poor nations. Religions at the start must gain converts. At first they are mostly about saving the world and all the people in it. Later many become Us against Them in focus. Many times the theology changes from convert the infidel to destroy the infidel. That is often based on falure to convert the infidel. Apologists point to the first stage beliefs as if they were the current beliefs. That is a very dangerous thing to do.

It is much easier in some respects in a rich nation that has a history of poverty. The Rich arabs have only been rich since the Automobile became a factor. God has blessed us and we must destory the infidel. God will be angry and take our wealth from us if we fail to kill the infidel. That is often the pitch in the rich nations. It works on fear. Fear is a good motivator. Always has been.

Militant religions and nations are always about gaining and retaining power. I have always marveled how a Hitler could convince Germany that Jews were the source of all their problems. Germany at the time was the most educated nation on earth. Yet their people bought it.

I think it is because they were ready to believe it. They wanted someone to blame. Hitler gave them some one to blame. There was a 1000 year history of anti semitism in Europe and England. Read Shakespeare's "As You Like It" for proof. If Germans could beleive that Jews were the source of all evil, we should not be surprised at what others believe about us.

It is true however. Leaders look where the crowd is going, then get out in front to lead them. Hitler honed his pitch to what worked. So does Osama bin Laden.

It comes back to my theory that people always get the governments they want.

Bin Laden did not create this horse. He is just one of its current riders.

When people are willing to die for a cause, you have to kill the cause or the cause will kill you.