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To: Demidog
If you look at the basis of our support of Israel, and the Arab hatred for Israel, you discover the same thing, and that is the system of values which is the western civilization. Individualism, rule of law, government by consensus, respect for property rights, tolerance of diverse opinions, -- all these things can be summarized in one word, freedom, and that is what separates us from the militant Arabs and unites us with Israel.

It is true that we've done many things I wish we didn't. I wish we had stayed completely out of Yugoslavia and had found some radical resolution of the conflict with Iraq, in particular. That doesn't change the fact that in this war our cause is just.

It is also true that our enemy is militant Muslim civilization that permeates many Middle Eastern nations without wholly comprising any nation; that is to say, the so-called moderate Muslims are our natural allies.

172 posted on 10/09/2001 4:24:11 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex
If you look at the basis of our support of Israel, and the Arab hatred for Israel, you discover the same thing, and that is the system of values which is the western civilization.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that. Most of western civilization is overwhelmingly socialist. And again, while accusing libertarians of being myopic, you fall back on the position that Arabs in general hate western civilization. That is demonstrably false and evidence can be found in virtually every Cab and convenience store in America.

I don't wish to make too much of a generalization here because Arabs aren't exclusively found in Cabs and convenience stores. But I think you should get the point.

And rather than wild speculation about why Arabs in the middle east hate America, it would seem that the proper thing to do would be to ask the Arabs.

Individualism, rule of law, government by consensus, respect for property rights, tolerance of diverse opinions, -- all these things can be summarized in one word, freedom, and that is what separates us from the militant Arabs and unites us with Israel.

Does it really? When we annexed Iran during WWII and then finally installed a dictator friendly to us, how was that sticking to the ideals of freedom? If you think it didn't make an impression on the Persian people who lived there you weren't paying attention in 1978 when students finally had all they coiuld take and stormed the U.S. Embassy.

It is true that we've done many things I wish we didn't. I wish we had stayed completely out of Yugoslavia and had found some radical resolution of the conflict with Iraq, in particular. That doesn't change the fact that in this war our cause is just.

I don't recall arguing that retaliation is unjust.

When we armed and trained Iraq soldiers so they could murder thousands of Persians who we had forsaken and had finally grown tired of our petty control, how was that "standing for the principles of freedom?"

The Arabs in the middle east know us only by our actions. And our actions are absolutely not representative of the principles this nation was founded on.

It is also true that our enemy is militant Muslim civilization that permeates many Middle Eastern nations without wholly comprising any nation; that is to say, the so-called moderate Muslims are our natural allies.

Right, and we seem to have very little understanding of Arabs. When our business people wanted to compete with the Japanese and make business alliances they learned to speak Japanese and learned Japanese customs. It was extremely valuable.

It would be extremely valuable here as well but what I keep seeing is the insistence that it is totally unnecessary and we should hold on to the absurd belief that Arabs hate freedom and therefore hate us. Poppycock. Nobody hates freedom excepting those who withold political power from the people who deserve it.

173 posted on 10/09/2001 4:46:09 PM PDT by Demidog
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