Pope in dramatic appeal to avert war

Yahoo News (Reuters) ^ | 9-23-01 | Philip Pullella

[Conservative til I die]

I thought about returning to the Catholic church because I'm a member of one of the mainline denominations (Presbyterian Church U.S.A.--which my mother was raised in) that seems to be speeding toward apostasy. It's hard to tell the difference between the PCUSA and the Democrat Party sometimes. But the congregation of which I'm a member is very conservative, and we probably will leave the PCUSA if the ruling body decides to approve homosexual ordination of clergy. My pastor says he thinks we'll have a good idea by February as to whether the denomination is going to split or not, so I've been waiting to see what happens.

This is the problem I have with mainline Protestantism (fundamentalism, with its comic book theology is a different creature). It seems to be like a religious weather vane, blowing in different directions, doing 180 degree about-faces, splitting, uncertainty, and more. These are all distractions -and about things that were settled 1500 years ago- that take away from real worship.

[lawgirl]

I am not in court, in case you haven't noticed.

[George W. Bush]

I don't get it. Only Catholics suffer from being CINO's???? Are all Protestants pious by default????? Absolutely not. At least in my opinion. In any congregation you might name and by their own standards of Christian faith, it would be virtually impossible to consider more than a third as being saved. For instance, the fictional purgatory invented by Origen misleads those in the church of Rome (and other universalists) to believe vainly that they will eventually be saved no matter what, a virtual univeralism that is only one of the errors introduced to Christians in the period in which the Roman church became the agent of the Roman empire. These doctrines are worldly notions that are shared by many inside and outside the church of Rome. Many, perhaps most, Protestants today share one or more of these errors which are in direct conflict with scriptural teachings. One may look at the ancient Roman church and have some understanding and sympathy for their circumstances and their good intentions in promulgating such doctrine. But thier good intent does not excuse them for having substituted the ideas of man for the truth of God. The same may be said of any denomination or church who strays from the steady light of sola scriptura.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Can you say more about this pact. Did the US promise to defend these folks in return for the no-nuke policy?

[HiTech RedNeck]

Are they under any country's umbrella (Russia?). Or did they decide to go stark naked.

[HiTech RedNeck]

I mean nuclear deterrent protection umbrella. E.g. like the US will defend Taiwan or Japan, which yes are "independent countries," yet can not exercise any nuclear deterrent to a threatened or real nuclear attack upon themselves.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Saw in another thread that Russia considers most of the "stans" to still be in its sphere of influence. I don't think in the case of Japan a treaty is needed, they know what the USA would do.

[HiTech RedNeck]

The point being is didn't they give up their nukes because they felt fairly comfortable that, treaty or no, if someone else came gunning for them then it wouldn't go unanswered by a larger country (US or Russia). That isn't "building a nuke-free world," that's just being under the umbrella of someone else's nukes.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Methinks if the nukes of the USA and Russia suddenly evaporated, but others were left (e.g. China, India, Pakistan), they'd have a little different attitude.

[Zionist Conspirator]

I thought about returning to the Catholic church because I'm a member of one of the mainline denominations (Presbyterian Church U.S.A.--which my mother was raised in) that seems to be speeding toward apostasy.

Aw look, "Conservative" isn't even Catholic at all! All these remarks about "Zeke" have been coming from someone who's a "Zeke" himself!

That must also explain why he/she doesn't know that "Cletus" was the name of the third pope.

[wideawake]

the_doc has made his admission (by his omission of harping upon it anymore) that the Pope did not issue a mealymouthed, hippyesque statement.

If you had read my post #185 you would know what the Pope actually said as opposed to the Yahoo News paraphrase.

If you read his entire speech you would see that:

(1) He pointed out that the terrorists invoked their grievances with the US as justification for mass murder - to which argument he responded that negotiation and peaceful discussion were the proper remedies for Arabic grievances, not violence.

(2) He goes on to say that now, since the terrorists have used murder instead of negotiation, the US has the sovereign right to take measures calculated to protect its citizens - including the right to make war on those responsible.

The Pope's message is clear to anyone who reads his full statement, instead of relying upon Yahoo News snippets. He is supporting our President 100% in his undertakings and sending a message to Catholic peaceniks that they cannot invoke the Church's just war doctrine as an excuse for pacifism in this instance because the President is doing the right thing.

As for you, lawgirl, your childish tantrums and refusal to examine all the evidence will not serve you in good stead in your chosen profession.

[dignan3]

For instance, the fictional purgatory invented by Origen misleads those in the church of Rome (and other universalists) to believe vainly that they will eventually be saved no matter what, a virtual univeralism that is only one of the errors introduced to Christians in the period in which the Roman church became the agent of the Roman empire

Not everyone will go to purgatory and it's kind of hard for the Catholic Church to believe in universalism with Her quite strong teaching on Hell.

Pray for John Paul II