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To: BlueLancer
Checked your home page. I am surprised that you quote Shakespeare and Kipling as justification of your war-mongering - completely missing the irony and sarcasm in both of them.

Shakespeare's view of war is pretty much summed up in Hamlet "slew the sledded Pollock on the ice." What could be sillier than to fight a bloody battle over a piece of ice that will melt in the summer. But you missed that subtlety.

And do you really think that Kipling is eulogising and rhapsodizing over the ignorance and prejudice of the Cockneys he portrays so accurately? Do you really? Try reading him again.

139 posted on 09/24/2001 6:51:29 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson
Well, you know how it is with we warmongers ... sometimes we just can't help ourselves by reading just good rousing poetry.

You will notice that I didn't use any excerpts from "Hamlet" in my profile. I selectively chose the St. Crispin's Day Speech, and you cannot tell me that THAT speech has any subtlety to it beyond its direct call to arms. I could have also chosen the Harfleur speech ... you know, the "Once more into the breech" recital; that, as well, doesn't lend itself to your Shakespearean "anti-war" theory either.

Finally, for Kipling, yes, I would agree that some of his poetry and stories do contain some irony and sarcasm; however, nowhere in those do you find anything in opposition to the soldiers themselves ..."Tommy" brings to mind the position of the soldier in relation to the society that hates him until it requires him to put himself into the line to defend them. "Hymn before Action" most definitely does not fit within your theory of "anti-war" Kipling. Kipling's sarcasm, to me, appears to be directed to the political and social foundations that place the poor soldiers in the position of defending against hopeless and overwhelming odds and which didn't do anything to support those forces before they were needed.

So, I would say that you have selectively chosen to misrepresent what can be found in Shakespeare's and Kipling's writings. Like any written source, you can cherry-pick until you find things that you like and that back up your position. I will readily admit that I have done so ... I do not like "Hamlet" overall; although there are some lines and scenes in it that I do enjoy. That's why I did not select anything from it.

But I guess that the fact that I am a "war-monger" means that such things are beyond my understanding. You go ahead and believe that; it is, after all, the very liberal position to take when asserting your superiority over we poor soldiers.

140 posted on 09/25/2001 4:18:51 AM PDT by BlueLancer
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To: AndyJackson
bttt
147 posted on 09/26/2001 4:03:28 AM PDT by BlueLancer
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