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To: justshutupandtakeit
Your venom flows like a New England version of James Carville. Pretty one-sided, to be kind. It sounds suprisingly familiar, sorta like the Federalist 'literature' of Jefferson's most vehement opposition: the Antithesis of Freneau (you gotta admit, that's funny).

BTW, you stated that Madison became a strict constructionist after he became a "Jeffersonian"; and before that he assumed there were implied powers? This would indicate he became a Jeffersonian prior to his penning of Federalist 41, which I doubt. You must have assumed his first stance against implied power was in the 1792 General Welfare debate on the floor of the House.

This may come as a surprise to you, but there are History Professors that favor the Anti-Federalists. However, none (that I have debated) thought Jefferson to be a true Anti-Federalist. As for me, I couldn't care less. I think we got it about right for approximately the first 200 years, and lost our way the past 25.

69 posted on 09/24/2001 8:50:19 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: PhilipFreneau
My venom is the result of discovering that I had been duped for most of my life regarding the truth about Alexander Hamilton, Madison and Jefferson. Until a couple of years ago I was a great admirer of the latter two and not so much so the former. Then I started doing in depth research into Hamilton and indirectly because of their conflict with him the other two.

Much to my astonishment I discovered that Hamilton was indeed a great American hero while the underhanded activities of Jefferson and Madison to undermine his influence with Washington greatly diminished my respect for them. Freneau played a large role in this. Their attempts to hamstring him during his term of SecTreas consisted of dragging up outrageous lies about his honesty, throwing every conceivable roadblock into his attempts to place this nation on a firm financial footing and turning from supporters of the government to treacherous opposition (by Jefferson still SecState for Washington) and changing their interpretations of the Constitution to fit their convenience.

Madison's interpretations of the Constitution changed at least twice and he changed back once he discovered the extremes Jefferson was taking with regard to the Constitution. (A State being able to declare laws constitutional or no means there is no law of the land thus no real constituion for example.) He was also appalled at the encouragement to the concept of secession by Jefferson. And eventually called him on it.

The deviousness and outright lies cost J. and M. Washington's friendship. That right there says a lot.

Then to examine the later influence of the Slaveocracy which was utterly in contradiction to a Republic, causes me a lot of heartburn. Hamilton OTOH was vehemently anti-slavery. J. and M. were born rich landowners, Hamilton had nothing not even legitimacy. Yet, he was painted as "an Anglophile and a friend of the rich" a lie.

Had war with France or England occurred before 1800 Hamilton would have been commanding the U.S. armies while J. and M. sat on the sidelines and sniped.

I would accept the title of anti-Freneau as long as I, unlike he, restricts myself to the truth.

70 posted on 09/24/2001 9:13:39 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit
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