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Mossad speaks up
Janes.com ^ | September 19, 2001

Posted on 09/20/2001 1:39:16 AM PDT by VaBthang4

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To: ExiledInTaiwan
Yes one sale may not have gone through, but pictures of the missiles on the Chinese plane that collided with our EP3 proved Israel did sell other items to China.

The sale of those missiles was approved by the US back during the Cold War. The US has sold plenty of military hardware to China too.

81 posted on 09/20/2001 9:32:24 AM PDT by Inyokern
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To: VaBthang4
Whe the Mossad speaks, we should listen.
82 posted on 09/20/2001 9:35:51 AM PDT by white trash redneck
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To: Sabramerican
They canceled the free enterprise deal and took a financial bath. When their "free enterprise deal" was in violation of U.S. law and the agreements they had signed, I don't think they get too much applause.

As far as the Arrow II, it had a successful test last November and I saw a report that U.S. officials were investigating how to mate it to U.S. radar system. However, our own development of anti-ballistic missiles is proceeding successfully, indicating that we had no need of Israel's technology in this instance. However, we did fund about 65% of their $1.1 billion dollar effort. Of course, in all of those years they developed it, our cash donations and other deals with Israel more than compensated their own Arrow costs.

One could say we paid them to build Arrow for themselves.

And I don't actually care about that. I support Israel. But I don't like their trying to re-sell our technology to unsavory characters. Like China. This has been a problem with Israel for many years.

Before we get too overboard on Arrow, it's really a technology for stopping outdated SCUD's. Better than our current Patriot, no doubt. But hardly the answer we need in theater missile defense.
83 posted on 09/20/2001 9:36:14 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Sabramerican
Half the family is in the group that controls the US and half the family in the group that sells the US to the Chinese.

No. MY family controls the US. You can have China.

84 posted on 09/20/2001 9:40:40 AM PDT by Inyokern
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To: George W. Bush
was in violation of U.S. law

BS. Not only was it not in violation of anything but they had run it through with the US without objection. New circumstances caused a US reevaluation which ended up costing Israel both financially and in other ways.

85 posted on 09/20/2001 9:40:40 AM PDT by Sabramerican
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To: Inyokern, mxbluto
Inyokern - you're only going to get yourself riled up arguing with this moron. Mxbluto refuses to remove his antisemitic glasses, and probably considers everyone outside of the USA as a likely enemy. At best he is paranoid, at worst a fool. Probably a little of both.
If MxBluto sees the Mossad as double-agents, his ignorance is beyond comprehension. Imagine the repercussions if Israel were found to be behind slaughter 5000 American civilians. Their country would cease to exist in less than 3 years.
86 posted on 09/20/2001 9:43:54 AM PDT by the herald
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To: RLK
Great. Let's hit 'em and make some friends!
87 posted on 09/20/2001 9:45:33 AM PDT by WriteOn
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Comment #88 Removed by Moderator

To: Sabramerican
You wouldn't believe how confused my family is when we get together. All "Zionists". Half the family is in the group that controls the US and half the family in the group that sells the US to the Chinese. And how we fight over the white fish. It's not a pretty sight. Yes, we already knew. Just don't say anything for fear of being labelled antisemitic.

From Foreign Correspondent (Eric Margolis):

"The transfer of billions worth of advanced US military technology to Israel, under the innocuous title of `Technical Data Packages,' was arranged by Israel's American supporters, beginning in 1970. This massive infusion of secret US weapons and electronics technology- the largest ever to another nation - allowed Israel to develop state-of-the art military industries that exported some $1.5-2 billion annually (40% of its total exports by the late 1980's), and which became the nation's largest employer. Israel is now the world's sixth largest arms exporter. In some cases, Israel improved on US weapons and electronics systems.

Pentagon sources charge Israel `backdoored' US technology to China for the Patriot AA missile, other surface-to-air missiles; the PL-8 air-to-air missiles; C-802 anti-ship missiles; advanced composite tank armor and tank guns; aircraft avionics and ground radar systems; and the J-10 fighter, which is based on secret US technology used in Israel's cancelled `Lavi' fighter. Israel denies these charges. A Pentagon investigation of the Patriot sale, cleared Israel. Critics charged it did so under intense political pressure from Israel's supporters."
Some corroboration from asianstudies.org (Heritage's Wortzel):
China is acquiring a number of weapon and command and control systems that could extend the range of its own missiles and aircraft, and permit it to project power at greater ranges from its shores. In some cases, the assistance is coming from American allies, or from major recipients of financial aid from the United States. Israel is believed to have aided in the ongoing development of China's Jian-10 (F-10) fighter aircraft, which is expected to carry versions of Israeli missiles. The United States intelligence community suspects that avionics components, advanced composite materials, and flight control specifications related to the abandoned Israeli Lavi aircraft program, and derived from the U.S. F-16 aircraft were sold to China by Israeli Aircraft Industries. If this aircraft is eventually fielded by China it will give the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force an indigenously produced modern fighter aircraft. The Jian-10, like its earlier model Chinese fighters, would carry missiles incorporating technology and assistance from such countries as France and Italy.

In 1999, Israeli Aircraft Industries was scheduled to conclude the sale of the Phalcon airborne early warning radar systems to China. The radar systems were to be fitted by Israel on Russian IL-76 (Candid) transport aircraft, providing China with a relatively advanced airborne early warning (AWACS) capability. With these systems, China would have been better equipped to detect aircraft at a greater distance, and, more seriously, to coordinate the actions of numerous fighter aircraft in air combat. The AWACS radar, combined with other command and control and data exchange systems, would also have helped the PLA Air Force extend the range of its cruise missiles and air-to-air missiles. Bowing to intense U.S. diplomatic pressure, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak cancelled the impending sale on July 13, 2000. Some members of the United States Congress threatened to cut American economic aid to Israel in retaliation for the radar sale to China because the acquisition of these particular systems had the potential to change the balance of power in the Asia-Pacific. China will probably acquire a less capable system from Russia, also a major recipient of major American, and Japanese financial assistance.

In the case of the AWACS radar systems, the other country that sought to make the sale to China was Great Britain, perhaps America's closest European ally. Such a system of command, control and early warning, and the high-tech weapons it directs, will certainly be used to deter attempts by the United States to maintain the peace and stability of the Western Pacific should China carry out its threats to use force against Taiwan. The systems could also be used to affect the control of the islands and sea lines of communication in the South China or East China Seas.
Israel has an industry based on spying and espionage agaist us (and many others). The Pollard case still hinges around U.S. bureaucrats (our unlikely heroes) fighting to keep Israel from retrieving its espionage agent.
89 posted on 09/20/2001 9:58:04 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Sabramerican
BS. Not only was it not in violation of anything but they had run it through with the US without objection. You can keep saying this. I can find no such account. Instead, I find reports of Congress (House) threatening to withold future aid to Israel, Cohen slamming pressure on them, Clinton twisting their arms in the middle of the Iraelis-Palestinian peace talks in order to get this sale cancelled. I can't find anything that shows they had an approval. I don't think it would mean much anyway coming from the Clinton administration. Clearly, we had to pull out all the stops to make them cancel this sale.
90 posted on 09/20/2001 10:03:53 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: George W. Bush
You can keep saying this. I can find no such account.

LOL. It probably wasn't in Spotlight and similar sources.

91 posted on 09/20/2001 10:08:23 AM PDT by Sabramerican
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To: the herald
his ignorance is beyond comprehension

Why is it that you guys always hyper-emphasize everything? Though it may not be very popular to suggest that many of the Isrealis are evil little creeps, it is a strong possibility to consider. I'm not a Jew or a Muslem, so I can objectively consider both angles.

I do think that they would perform a horrific act against the Americans if they thought that this act would assure the ultimate safety of their promised land.

Now, the suicidal terrorist Arabs. Don't fool yourself. A nations intelligence capabilities goes far beyond what you and I see on CNN.

These terrorists were boozing it up at a bar days before the incident. Does that sound like something a muslem would do if they thought they'd be at the throne of Allah?

Too many strange things about this and to many benefits for Isreal. Too few for the Islamic.

92 posted on 09/20/2001 10:11:38 AM PDT by mxbluto
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To: Sabramerican
LOL. It probably wasn't in Spotlight and similar sources. A weak diversion. You should prove your repeated assertion from reputable sources that Israel had the necessary contractual releases from the U.S. for this technology transfer. Or you should retract.

What is Spotlight anyway?
93 posted on 09/20/2001 10:13:04 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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Comment #95 Removed by Moderator

To: RLK
They're all the same enemies. We're gonna get them all. Remember that.
96 posted on 09/20/2001 10:19:08 AM PDT by Abn1508
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To: RLK
They're all the same enemies. We're gonna get them all. Remember that.
97 posted on 09/20/2001 10:19:14 AM PDT by Abn1508
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To: George W. Bush
I have seen it definitively stated. I would swear to that fact under oath. I'm sorry that I have neither the time nor inclination to do research on your whim. If you don't like that- I won't be able to sleep tonight. You, I'm certain will fall asleep as you count evil Israelis. Sleep well.
98 posted on 09/20/2001 10:21:42 AM PDT by Sabramerican
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To: Sabramerican ExiledInTaiwan
First you say:

The United States however continues to sell to China and may even share, with them, missile defense technology-much of which is being developed by the Arrow project in Israel.

Which is a statement wholly without basis, apparently your opinion (maybe something you heard on DEBKA, I guess).

But when ExiledInTaiwan says:

The U.S. Arms Export Control Act (AECA) specifically states that no country may sell U.S. "defense articles or service" to a third country (known as unauthorized retransfer) without U.S. approval. From 1975 to 1995, 17 reports went to Congress concerning so-called end-use violations, seven of which pertained to Israel.

Which is a statement that is thoroughly corroborated by the public record, you make some flippant remark about "Zionists taking over the world."

Why don't you get serious? Just tell us that in your world-view: "Everything Israel does: Good and Justifiable no matter what."

Israel is no solid friend of the United States (which may explain your apparent schizophrenia resulting in your oxymoronic screen-name--either your a "Sabra" or your an American, you can't be both). They do what is in THEIR interest, and if a U.S. spy ship gets in the way, shoot it to pieces and kill American sailors; if it is advantageous to steal U.S. secrets and sell them on the open market, fine. ANYTHING Israel wants to do, FINE.

I long for the day when Israel is cut loose from the United States' foreign aid chow line. Friends like them we DON'T need.

99 posted on 09/20/2001 10:24:09 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
Which is a statement wholly without basis, apparently your opinion (maybe something you heard on DEBKA, I guess).

You must confuse me with your (lying)side who make things up. In case you missed it, this was a major story in the NY Times a few weeks ago. The administration needed to issue denials/clarifications.

100 posted on 09/20/2001 10:30:31 AM PDT by Sabramerican
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