Posted on 09/20/2001 1:39:16 AM PDT by VaBthang4
Regardless of the source, it's a fact the U.S. has built up Israel's military and Israel has sold and/or wishes to sell sensitive technology to our enemies. Of course Clinton has done the same, as has some corporations in the U.S. I also detest this!
Hypocrite. Life isn't always symmetrical in the world of realpolitik. Until the U.S. maintains it's own symmetry with respect to China, then you have no business mouthing hypocritical bleatings regarding Israel:
Bush to Share Missile Defense Plans with China
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States will brief China on its plans to test a new missile defense system in an effort to win Beijing's acceptance, a White House spokesman said on Sunday.
U.S. officials will share information on their missile defense plans with the Chinese as part of an outreach effort in preparation for President Bush (news - web sites)'s trip to Beijing next month, said Sean McCormack, a spokesman for the National Security Council.
``We are going to talk to them about our missile defense plans (and) explain to them that this is designed to protect us from rogue nations and accidental launch,'' McCormack said in confirming a report outlined in Sunday's Washington Post.
The spokesman at the same time denied a report in The New York Times that said the administration was also planning to drop its objections to China building up its small nuclear arsenal in a bid get Beijing's support for U.S. missile defense.
``There is not a linkage between the two,'' McCormack said. ''If there is a build-up, then we will take that into account in our own military planning.''
Arms analysts estimate China has about two dozen nuclear missiles capable of reaching the United States.
Bush's advisers concluded that China's nuclear modernization is inevitable and they could gain advantage by acquiescing to it, the Times said.
McCormack also denied reports in both newspapers that said as part of the new effort the United States and China might also discuss resuming underground nuclear tests to ensure the reliability of their arsenals.
BROADER PUSH TO WIN CHINESE ACCEPTANCE
The spokesman said the briefings are part of a broader push to win Chinese acceptance of the U.S. missile defense system and ``make it very clear to them that missile defense is not aimed at them.''
The briefings will be ``at a consultative level,'' similar to those given to European and Russian officials, he added.
In proposing a missile defense system, Bush has cited the threat from countries like North Korea (news - web sites), Iraq and Iran, and is eager to deploy a shield including missiles launched from ships and lasers fired from modified Boeing 747 aircraft.
But the plans would violate the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty, and have been firmly resisted by China, Russia and many European allies who fear a renewed arms race.
After the Pentagon (news - web sites) conducted a successful test in July, China's official Xinhua news agency said missile defense would ''not only spark a new arms race, but also threaten world peace and security and stimulate nuclear proliferation.''
The reports of the administration efforts drew a skeptical response on Sunday from at least one Republican senator, Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania.
Just returned from a trip to China, Specter challenged the wisdom of any move that would strengthen Beijing's nuclear hand and said he intended to talk to the White House.
``I would not like to see the Chinese expand their nuclear capability,'' Specter, a leading Republican on the Senate Appropriations foreign operations subcommittee, told the CBS ''Face the Nation'' program.
``We are looking at a country with 1.25 billion people and they are the coming colossus of the world and a superpower,'' he said. ``I would not like to see them become any more powerful in the nuclear line. I think we ought to formulate our policy in many different ways to try to avoid just that.''
OUCH!
US FUNDING NUCLEAR PLANT IN CHINA
OUCH!
US Ambassador to China helped communists modernize the PLA{Admiral Prueher’s appeasement/ Red China
OUCH!
China's Illegal Spy Plane - Armed With Advanced Radar by U.S.Chinese Army Radar Made in U.S.A.
OUCH! OH PLEASE STOP!
Why do I almost never see anyone of the rabid "kill all Palestinians" group accept some responsibility for their own groups past actions?
Not wholesale destruction more like wholesale transfer to other Arab lands as proposed by this wise Arab a number of years ago (after all, that's the only thing to be done with a nazified population):
In 1939, Mojli Amin, a member of the Arab Defense Committee for Palestine, drew up a proposal, published in Damascus and distributed among Arab leaders, entitled "Exchange of Populations." Amin proposed that
"all the Arabs of Palestine shall leave and be divided up among the neigboring Arab countries. In exchange for this, all the Jews living in Arab countries will go to Palestine...The exchange of populations should be carried out in the same way that Turkey and Greece exchanged their populations. Special committees must be set up to deal with the liquidation of Jewish and Arab property....I fear, in truth, that the Arabs will not agree...But in spite of this, I take upon myself the task of convincing them..."(from the Central Zionist Archives-525/5630).
I think not! "…the most formidable weapon in China's military arsenal." referring to the Lavi fighter-bomber, was given to China by Israel!
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0196/9601012.html
The US armed Iraq, it armed the afghans - where's the proportionality of whining and screaming?
You take things out of context, in time and history. You fail to recall the US armed Afghanistan when it was defending itself from a more powerful Russia, at that time.
Personally I think that the Israeli attempt to sell the AWACS to China was stupid, but Israel would certainly have given the US the codes if/when US went to war with chicoms,
You have a very simplistic view of the world. If a balance of power is not maintained in the Taiwan / China region, China will be emboldened to attack Taiwan. The US would probably defend Taiwan. Leading to the largest conflagration of the last half century! The way to prevent this is not tip the scale in China's favor. Depending on Israel kindly supplying us with the codes after the war had already started, would be a bit late. Proper diplomacy and balance of power should be a priority, not using codes after a war has started.
And friend, maybe in commie-prop school they didn't tell you that Regardless of the source, it's a fact doesn't work - we learn how to write book-reports with accurate sources in high-school here...
You didn't and cannot counter my statement and it still stands as a fact!
You should have gone beyond high school! They teach in graduate school to know your enemy; also to use multiple sources for information!
IF you are such a patriot, you should be kissing every Jewish RW *ss in the US and Israel, thanking her for preventing Saddam from EVEN HAVING the nuclear threat against US troops in desert storm.
Sir you seem not to be aware that 90% of US problems in the Middle East stem from Israel.
But that doesn't fit your agenda - your game is not to protect the US, it is to tear down Israel.
I assure you I have no game. If I could verbalize a goal, it would be for the US to follow its own interests and for Americans to have a more informed and balanced view of the people of the Middle East. Given the extreme past bias of the American media, I have little hope of this happening. But you have already expressed the same thing
ALL allies have to act in their own interests
I am just doing the same, with some added perspective from living in Asia ten years, seeing Chinese culture. I can assure you if Bush continues to keep a tight alliance while hunting terrorists, it should not escalate to a larger affair, but if China and Taiwan tango, it will be a major event!!!
the Israeli's arent perfect, but they are better than ANY OTHER ALLY IN THE MIDEAST.
I don't deny they are an ally, but if they do not watch the bigger picture here, it will get out of hand quick! China is waiting and watching. Their agressive acquisition of high tech weaponry is only matched by their aggressive behavior with neighboring countries. They are in conflict with nearly every bordering country: India, Tibet, Russia, Vietnam, Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, and the Muslim countries to the west.
Jews have been doing mea culpa for their deluded relatives who fell into communism,
I would not call the New York Times lying about this pogrom in the Ukraine a form of mea culpa!!! I would not call programs like Sixty Minutes doing a segment on anti-semitism in the Ukraine, without giving some background on the root cause, a mea culpa! I have seen dozens of movies and TV shows on the holocaust but not a one on this crime in the Ukraine! I don't call this a mea culpa.
Ukrainians who hated communists helped the nazi's slaughter hundreds of thousands of NON_COMMUNIST ghetto yids INCLUDING MY RELATIVES.
I'm sorry about your relatives. But when you mention the numbers,don't you think they pale in comparison to the upwards of nine million killed under the leadership of a Jew, Lazar Kaganovitch in 1932-3.
You figure out the proportionality, I won't.
Well nine million to a hundred thousand is a proportion of 90 to 1.
... collaborating with Ho chi Minh when we lost 50,000 - because it doesn't fit in your scheme
Well there you go again; lets look at the proportions, as you suggest: nine million to fifty thousand, why that's 180 to 1. Guess it's because the numbers are so disproportionate! Could it be? Also it's not very germane to the current discussion or current problems facing the US. But I know your high school taught you to focus, didn't they?
To paraphrase a previous poster, "Some people take "never forget" very VERY VERY seriously..."
I know this quite well; some of my Jewish friends, in the US, refuse to buy any product produced in Germany.
- Israel does just that - to make sure Jews will NEVER AGAIN have to depend on the tender mercies of “friends” like you, Jews have their own state, their own defense.
Lets see, how many billions of dollars has the US given to Israel? How much weaponry has the US transferred to Israel? Check the records, Israel is not so independent after all.
Trans - arabs have vowed and CONTINUOUSLY VOW to destroy Israel. Unlike the Brits and US in WW2, who ignored Mein Kampf, unlike the US over the last decade who ignored islamic threats of Jihad, the Israeli’s are taking the trans-arabs at their word.
I'd say Israel has created a lot of this problem. Possibly because people have the sentiment you have expressed as follows:
I am for moving all trans-arabs out of Israel. Peacefully -with MY money
A Nice sentiment, kick hundreds of thousands of people off their land. Which happened to be their land and under their peoples' control for 1,400 years. I doubt they would react peacefully to your proposal. Any breathing, living, feeling human being would not. Why don't you see this?
Like many RW Jews in US and Israel, I am for and have been advocating vigorous self defense and preemptive acts against terrorists entities
Your lucky the Palestinians didn't have the wherewithwall to make preemptive, self defensive attacks in 1920 when there were 500,000 Arabs and only 89,000 Jews. But you see, for you to get this, your high school would have had to teach you to look at things from another perspective.
If Bush and Powell do not follow through as per last nights speech, we will do it again for the west, as we did it to the Iraqi's reactor. Any friend of Islamo-terrorists best steer clear.
Yer sir, Israel has sure shown us the shining path to maintaining peace and stability in a region. They have made such good friends with the neighbors.
I suggest you go back and study history. Pay particular attention to how the thirteen colonies formed a union from some very different people., very different religious beliefs, at a time when religious persecution was rampant in Europe. It worked. The example is there. What is Israel's problem?
You're a real piece of work. Call anyone who disagrees with your view of land aquisition a Nazi. Typical!
Those nasty Palestinians, just happened to occupy your land before you got there.
I mention in two posts that the US has passed much to China and you have the gall to still call me a hypocrite. I would submit that after the US has given Israel its life, through weapons transfers, military support and money, they should be at least grateful enough not to sell our advanced weapons to our enemies. Anyone doing this might be labelled an ingrate!
See post#148,149.
Well we'll give you the micro-manager of the year award for that observation. In the meantime the U.S. sells weapons to Israel's enemies,ex. Saudi Arabia, which is still techically at war with Israel and arms Egypt to the teeth, which despite Camp David, is still part of the Arab League a belligerent anti-Israel cabal of Islamic states. This is realpolitik and quite frankly, China is far from being an enemy in the U.S.'s eyes having through both Clinton and Bush received technology, military know-how,etc. as well as having been welcomed them into global trading community by both administrations. As well, besides the U.S., Britain and France, among other allies, have found ways to by-pass the self-imposed (non-mandatory) post-Tinamin Square sanctions against China with respect to arms/equipment/satellite technology, etc.
You Arabs have strange heroes.
PS. I remember the Holy Land before 1967. I remember the human feces seen in public everywhere including near the temple mount.
The Arabs had no conception of sanitation, and their excrements were everywhere.
No, actually monotheism, representing God as the God of all people, was first introduced to the world by Ikhnaton. "This is not only one of the great poems of history, it is the first outstanding expression of monotheism - seven hundred years before Isaiah." From p. 210, The Story of Civilization, by Durranty.
There were no arab Govts in control of the land of Israel when you claim; you are a liar.
Sorry, you need to take it up with Grolliers, Inc. Who say: "Shortly after 630, Palestine was conquered by the Arabs....From then until the 20th century, most of the people of Palestine were Arab and Muslim...Throughout this period, Palestine was usually part of one or another Muslim state." p. 40b, The New Book of Knowledge, Vol. 15, 1987, Grollier Incorporated.
I'd suggest you get your facts straight before you shoot off your yap calling someone a liar!
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