Posted on 09/17/2001 11:55:01 PM PDT by kattracks
Edited on 07/12/2004 3:47:02 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
U.S. intelligence officials are investigating ties between the terrorists who carried out suicide airliner attacks and associates of Osama bin Laden based in Albania.
The connections were described as support for the terrorist operation to hijack U.S. commercial jetliners and crash them into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center, according to U.S. intelligence officials.
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
You distort everything that I say and try and make out that I am denying that any atrocities were carried out by Serbian paramilitaries. I'm not, but they were massively overspun as an excuse to break all accepted international norms and charters and bomb civilians from 15,000 feet. If you were a true humanitarian you would find this repulsive.
The mass movement of people came after the bombing started (widely accepted by Nato govts). I deliberately avoided using the phrase 'ethnic cleansing' because just as the words 'mass grave' and 'genocide' they have been over-used to the extent that it insults true history.
And yet... no links. Remember, you said that the UN has verified that over 1,500 civilians died in the air strikes, so back it up.
You see, Kate, I don't believe you, and I'm telling you to provide proof to back up your claim, much like I did with your Bondsteel claim. I'm kind of expecting the same devolution into bluster here, so make my day and prove me wrong on that point, huh?
HRW is not an extension of the State Dept, and that's a cop-out, Kate. I could call you an extension of Vojislav Seselj based on the same level of proof that you are using to bolster your claim. Wanna keep it real or devolve into pure fantasy? Your choice.
There was no mass movement of people from that region until after the bombing started
B.S. There were over 200,000 refugees moving around inside Kosovo who had been displaced from their homes when NATO started bombing, and that's why we started bombing. The fact that the Serbs started herding people to the borders after the bombing started is irrelevant - people were dehoused by Serb forces in large numbers prior to the initiation of hostilities.
These people were not going to death camps, but just being dumped out of the country.
Not following you here - my hope is to get people back into their homes, not gerrymander the Balkans into pure ethnic fiefdoms. There are rules of war that I subscribe to that aim to limit it's affects on civilians. We'll never be able to eliminate the threat to civilians posed by military operations, but civilians haven't been the focus of our operations for some time, unlike Milosevic and his followers.
Please note the responses by Vooch and Joan - remember what I was saying about a hairball of lies that feeds on itself? These two can't even keep their lies straight any more - it's just depressing.
So you were member of the RS forces in Bosnia? As you'r speaking of your experience. But then certain things become very clear to me, just as with Branicap, who also revelead certain things about him and his involvement. Of course you will then defend the actions of your forces.
The basic stances are as follows:
I know that the bombing of Serbia was avoidable and had a number of geopolitical and other agendas;
it was illegal on multiple levels;
the atrocities were massively overspun to try and legalise the attack;
more civilians were killed than troops;
$billions of damage was caused (+ $billions spent on the destruction itself);
irreplaceable cultural and religious buildings and landmarks were damaged or destroyed (both during the bombing and post 'liberation' by the KLA);
an entire people was demonised;
a Muslim separatist army of listed terrorists was legitimised to fight on the ground to avoid Nato casualties... the list goes on.
Your stance is that it was 'right' and successfully saved almost a million people from being slaughtered, even though Nato itself admits that they were 'guessing' that this is what would happen. There was no evidence of genocide or intended genocide in Kosovo (as recently pronounced by the UN courts).
There are extremely few people who believe that this was a success in any way except for -
some of the hacks that have dug a hole so deep they can't contemplate otherwise;
Nato staff who are paid to defend the campaign;
Albanians who still believe that they may enjoy independence as a result (which they will find out in November is a myth);
and a few gung-ho Nato supporters who somehow feel as though they have to stick by the lies for some distorted reason.
I don't know which category you fall into.
Albanians who still believe that they may enjoy independence as a result (which they will find out in November is a myth);
and a few gung-ho Nato supporters who somehow feel as though they have to stick by the lies for some distorted reason.
I don't know which category you fall into.
And into which category do I fall Kate? With everything you know about me and my views, and all said?
Just because I talk about the crimes of Serb military and paramilitary forces in Bosnia, Kosovo and Croatia while acknowledging the crimes comitted against Serbs. Yet, we still strongly disagree. Interesting isn't it? :)
Hoplite is correct on this one. The HRW report was written and researched by Major William Arkin US Army Intelligence (ret)
Hoplite, why do you keep trying to suppress the 1,100 civilians murdered and 1,300 disappeared since Kfor took control ?
in the accounting one should figure the following
Fact: Hoplite's bombs killed some 1,500 civilians in FRY ex-Kosovo and more than 500 in Kosovo, that is some 2,000 civilians..........in exchange they killed less than 250 Yugoslav soldiers.
Whichever way one slices it Hoplite's bombers killed between 5 and 15 times as many civilians as soldiers
And Kate22 you forget to add in the 1,100 civilians murdered and 1,300 disappeared since Hoplite's Mujahedeen pals took control of Kosovo under Kfor operational direction.
Seems to me that Hoplite's pals are responsible for the deaths of at least 4,500 civilians since March 23rd, 1999.......in stark constrast Milosevic is charged with the deaths of 391 people..........of which 40 were at Racak Firefight which the Forensic Experts concluded were killed in a fair fight
The simple overwhelming evidence is that Hoplite's Humanitarian Warriors are the WORST WAR CRIMINALS of the Kosovo War and perhaps of the entire Yugoslav Wars of Succession.
Hoplite's allys just killed 5,000 Americans and he is desperately trying to change the subject to some Clintonista myths. Hoppie, the best thing for you to do is admit that your guys f'd up big time by giving Bin Laden's guys 10 years of support
Oh Vooch, so Serb military and paramilitary forces killed 391 people in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo in the 1990's? While there is no doubt that 4500 civilians were killed by NATO and KLA during NATO attacks?
And you expect me to consider you unbiased and trustworthy? 391 people? Vooch, only in Srebrenica were 8000 Muslims killed by Serb forces. That is just one city in Bosnia alone (wihtout Kosovo and Croatia). So please, before you preach to me about facts, get your numbers straight. You tell me about 4500 civilians killed during NATO attacks, and I should believe every number you mention me, while when I mention those 200.000 people killed in Bosnia you accuse me of being NATO propaganda.
Even though we all know how long the war in Bosnia lasted (much longer then the NATO attacks), and the intensitly and brutality that was involved (whole cities and villages burnt down, various paramilitary forces involved). And yet, you'r talking to me about 391 people killed by Serb forces. Now, are you for real, or are you that desperate at defending and minimizing the responsibility of Milosevic and his forces that comitted crimes?
I was talking about Kosovo and our alliance with Bin Laden's KLA. Of course many crimes occurred in the Balkans, but that was outside of that scope. I haven't seen anything convincing in any of the links that you posted to me. That doesn't mean I think you're wrong, but only that I'd like to see more.
Or are you telling me that it’s all a lie, that all those people lie, that the video footage and photos of those crimes lie as well, that all the evidence is fake and that it’s all an illusion?
Not all, but here and here are some examples showing just that. The fact that many accusations came directly not from the Albanians but as translated by the KLA doesn't impress me either.
What do you actually want to tell me?
I've have made it very clear. I asked you for links, and I explained why in my second post to you, which is that I wanted to see what was confessed to and when it was confessed, IE before or after the west sided with the guarantor. I have no idea why you're having a problem understanding that.
As for your question, I have no idea.
Look, whatever I would post, you wouldn’t believe me. I have already posted numerous links and photos from Racak, but as always the only response I got was that the people killed were KLA terrorists, even though there were elderly civilians and women on the photos or that they were killed by Albanians themselves.
The level of excuses, justifications and denial is just amazing, whenever ANY case of Serb crimes is mentioned here. Some people obviously are not able to deal with it, because they have a fixed idea of how it all was supposed to be, ignoring many facts that go against them.
Which is not really surprising, also due to the fact that the victims were Muslims, and it’s clear that Muslims are not appreciated exactly over here, specially not compared to Orthodox Christian Serbs. And don’t tell me that religion has nothing to do with it. I have seen enough of the posts to see exactly where the problem lies.
As though as it is not possible that Muslims could be victims of a murderous policy, as though there are not terrorist-likes among others as well who comitted crimes. And so many people are ready to believe anything that fits into such mentality. No matter how wrong they may be. People like Mladic, Karadzic, Martic and Arkan were nothing but terrorists.And they were not Muslims. They were formed of criminals, prisoners, murderers, people that had absolutely no problem in killing and massacring civilians. And the fact that some people here even call them patriots, is very sad indeed, and may tell me a thing or two about those people saying such things
Not being Serbian or Albanian, what do you mean by pure hate. I think the wars in the Balkans have cornered that market. As for the Hague Tribunal it does not discriminate, their is a place for War Criminals from what ever nationality.
if you like them so much go there and testify for them
Can you kindly state who them are in particular, Croat, Serb or Rwandan???? Who is the nice guy in your opinion? The one responsible for the deaths of the least people?
As for the ever growing supply of heroin going into Europe/ North America from NATO controlled Kosovo via the KLA, it seems that the KLA want to use the proceeds for their freedom/Narco terrorist empire while enslaving people in Europe and the U.S. to heroin. Not a nice way to make friends I think. The KLA ‘s actions speak for themselves and with the Osama Bin- Ladin connection to really complicate things, it will be really interesting to see what happens. Deeds speak man which is what Bin-Ladin is finding out.
You know, there were many of those who (unlike you) preferred to live in strong respectable federation, not in the helpless little but incredibly INDEPENDENT 'state'.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.