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To: Terriergal
I have recanted my advocacy of a particular war-fighting strategy, but I have not advocated pacifism.

It must be remembered that the Holy Orthodox Church has specific services for blessing the arms of the Orthodox who go to war, a special service for remembering fallen Orthodox warriors, and an extra petition for victory over our enemies in the Great Ektenia (Litany) at the beginning of the Divine Liturgy, which is said only in time of war. It must also be remembered that our faithful who kill, even in a just war, are placed under a penance--although the penance for justifiable killing, whether in war or self-defense is far less severe than that for murder.

As I pointed out on another thread, I think God has been merciful to us in not providing an example in the Gospels of how Christ dealt (or would have dealt) with an implacable threat of violence to another. We ought turn our own other cheek. We may not offer the cheeks of innocent others for smiting. To leave this threat unaddressed is to offer millions of our countrymen and fellow Christians up to death should our enemy succeed in their quest to obtain weapons of mass destruction. Each Christian is called to take up the Cross and follow Christ, to martyrdom if necessary. We may not offer our fellow man as a burnt offering to Islamic terrorists, their demands, or their false god.

51 posted on 09/18/2001 9:26:25 AM PDT by The_Reader_David
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To: The_Reader_David
I think God has been merciful to us in not providing an example in the Gospels of how Christ dealt (or would have dealt) with an implacable threat of violence to another.

Ah, but He did give direction.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

He directed his followers to provide for their own defense as a group - not that each one necessarily be armed, but that there be enough arms that some would provide defense of the others. That the sword was enumerated among mundane items indicates that it is intended for mundane purposes; on the national level, that means defense against those who seek to harm our nation violently (as opposed to sometimes-described semi-supernatural wars). A relevant counter-example was given, when Peter attempted to take on an armed mob, and Jesus repaired the damage and told him to "put your sword in its place" (but not to get rid of it) as that was not the time for defense. What we now face IS a time for defense.

We ought turn our own other cheek.

The term "smite" used in that verse refers to insult-level minor assaults, like someone slapping you; the point being to put up with largely harmless actions in the interest of keeping the peace. The Greek word used there is distinctly different from the term used for life-threatening assaults. Our nation faces 5000+ dead, not a sore cheek. The time for the application of the sword has come.

60 posted on 09/18/2001 1:03:41 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: The_Reader_David
I think God has been merciful to us in not providing an example in the Gospels of how Christ dealt (or would have dealt) with an implacable threat of violence to another.

Ah, but He did give direction.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

He directed his followers to provide for their own defense as a group - not that each one necessarily be armed, but that there be enough arms that some would provide defense of the others. That the sword was enumerated among mundane items indicates that it is intended for mundane purposes; on the national level, that means defense against those who seek to harm our nation violently (as opposed to sometimes-described semi-supernatural wars). A relevant counter-example was given, when Peter attempted to take on an armed mob, and Jesus repaired the damage and told him to "put your sword in its place" (but not to get rid of it) as that was not the time for defense. What we now face IS a time for defense.

We ought turn our own other cheek.

The term "smite" used in that verse refers to insult-level minor assaults, like someone slapping you; the point being to put up with largely harmless actions in the interest of keeping the peace. The Greek word used there is distinctly different from the term used for life-threatening assaults. Our nation faces 5000+ dead, not a sore cheek. The time for the application of the sword has come.

61 posted on 09/18/2001 1:05:05 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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