Posted on 09/16/2001 12:17:04 PM PDT by meta
Hee hee! Good luck! He doesn't know how it would help. I've been trying to get that out of him and every other national ID supporter for days. The best I can figure is that it will make them feel better, that something is being done. How or even if it will work seems to be a minor concern, if any concern at all.
Of course if you point this out to him, he'll imply that you 'have your head up your butt'.
Additionally, the 2nd amendment has been thrown out.
We can't go back in time but Sept. 11th has made me think we should revisit our Constitution and right what has been wrong for many years before we lose our freedoms altogether.
They are hard to steal and forge.
How far would those murdering terrorists gotten with their little knives if couple of Americans had their personal weapons with them on the flight?Probably just as far as they got without armed Americans.
The problem isn't just that we are disarmed. The problem is that we have been conditioned to depend on others for our protection. We no longer have the culture of freedom.
I'm bumping another thread to you where I cover that in more detail.
I'd remind you that it was one of histories most notorious socialist tyrants, Adolph Hitler, who correctly declared
"What great luck for rulers that people do not think." </font size=5>
Yes, 9-11-01 was a terrible event and we must find and punish those responsible. And, sadly, there WILL be others.
But we must not punish ourselves and those who come after us by killing the idea that was America and for which idea so many have already paid the ultimate price. Should THAT happen, America the PLACE will no longer be worth saving. What’s to save?
There is now serious talk about the NATIONAL ID CARD some in government have lusted after for decades. IF government at the state level had NOT been so free and easy with, for example, DRIVER’S LICENSES and a number of other “official” documents (which we now know several of the murderers secured from Florida), it’s possible their miserable lives might have been complicated and their plot foiled.
But here’s the more fascinating question: WHY THE HELL WERE SOME OF THESE GUYS EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY? Much to the FBI’s and CIA’s consternation, it’s now coming out that a number of them had long histories of suspicion of complicity in OTHER terror attacks.
It is common knowledge that the INS (ask any of the guys in the field!) had its hands tied in rounding up and deporting hispanics ON ORDERS FROM ON HIGH to “go easy.” I wonder how much of THAT attitude slopped over to ALL aliens, legal and illegal.
And isn’t it interesting that we have heard nothing lately about AMNESTY for illegals?
If the tragic events of 9-11 prompt a long overdue review of our entire immigration policy, the 5,000+ may not have died in vain.
Now the same government that so miserably failed in its prime Constitutional duty to protect America from all enemies, both foreign and domestic by allowing 5,000 of them to be slaughtered like helpless cattle – after we have ALREADY handed over huge chunks of our freedoms – may now be poised to seize the remainder. That that seizure is with the acquiescence of a majority of the citizens here DOES NOT make it acceptable. That is why America was INTENDED to be a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC and NOT the DEMOCRACY the Founding Fathers abhorred.
The strong, self-reliant men who created this place understood the danger of trading freedom for “security.”
"Gentlemen may cry, 'peace, peace'--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! Is life so precious, or peace so dear, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!" -- Patrick Henry to the Virginia Convention on March 23, 1775.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, Pennsylvania Assembly, Nov. 11, 1755
Let me conclude by reminding you that the Nazi concentration camps and Soviet gulags were some of the most secure places on the planet -- for all BUT the inmates.
Is THAT what YOU want for YOUR kids and grandkids?
Let's work the problem, people -- starting with thinking it all the way through.
Providing for the common defense is a legitimate function of government.Yes, but it's also a legitimate function of each and every American citizen.
People in this country don't realize that we grant the government powers and authorities, and that those powers and authorities originate with us, the people of this country.
While we delegate to the federal government the authority and power to defend this country, we don't abdicate responsibility for the outcome. Every one of us, as a member of the militia, bear some personal responsibility as well.
Check this other thread, "Who is ultimately responsible for national defense? (We the people)" an leave me a comment ther.
Have you ever been treated for a mental illness?
Are you currently taking any medications?
Are you related to anyone who works for this airline?
Do you currently own or have you ever owned a firearm?
What is the purpose of your travel and how long do you intend to stay at your destination?
Do you see where this is going? Your suggestion of a Good Risk Passengers Only flight, and the screening it would require is in direct opposition to your originally posted sentences which started this thread.
I believe Timothy McVey was also an American citizen without a criminal record before he became a terrorist. Not only is a screening process impractical but useless as well.
I'd say "back to the drawing board".
Put things into perspective. Right now the FBI can be tapped into bin Laden's personal computer taking down everything he does, UNTIL he establishes communications with his cells in the U.S. at which time the law requires the FBI to stop monitoring him.You have been spouting this on several threads. Repeating it doesn't make it the truth.
The truth is that 50USC Chapter 36 (sections 1801-1806) details special court orders from a special "Foreign Intelligence Surveilance Court." These orders are for surveilance of "foreign powers" which are defined to include international terrorists and international terrorist organizations.
An order authorizing electronic surveilance under these sections must "minimize" the information gathered from non-consenting "United States persons". It does not forbid gathering voice recordings of "United States persons" which includes citizens and resident aliens living in the United States.
The minimization proceedures must insure that any nonpublicly available information about unconsenting "United States persons" must not be retained or used, except for:
Evidence of crimes or planned crimes will be forwarded to law enforcement. Law enforcement can then use this information to establish probable cause for wiretaps on United States citizens and resident ailiens.
"Foreign intelligence information" can also be retained. This includes information about international terrorism and about actual or potential attacks or hostile acts.
In short, your story is BS.
Also, the orders entered by the "Foriegn Intelligence Surveilance Court" are sealed and kept secret.
Do you honestly think a national ID card would have stopped the terrorists? *LOL* These laws, like gun control laws only hinder honest citizens. They have no effect on those that have no respect for the law. Wasn't hijacking a plane illegal? Did that law stop them? Isn't murder illegal? Did that law stop them? Get your head out of the dark place it currently resides.
How far would those murdering terrorists gotten with their little knives if couple of Americans had their personal weapons with them on the flight?Probably just as far as they got without armed Americans. The problem isn't just that we are disarmed. The problem is that we have been conditioned to depend on others for our protection. We no longer have the culture of freedom.
I admit that the self-sufficiency has been badly eroded in the past century, but the evidence provided by the passengers on the flight that crashed in Pennsyvania and the rousing support they got shows that the conditioning is being questioned and in a lot of cases rejected. All of us, individually and jointly, have to open our minds and mouths to all of the governments and their agencies we deal with to ensure that the policies we support are constitutionally viable, and those that are not are cancelled.
Since it's for national security, who could object?
Dianne Feinstein - Democrat from California
Barbara Boxer - Democrat from California
Charles Schumer - Democrat from New York
Hillary Clinton - Democrat from New York
Carolyn McCarthy - Democrat from New York
Loretta Sanchez - Democrat from New York
Any Republicans against this too?
I am not worried. They were most happy to add my name to the list. Besides, it was people like ME who helped CREATE this country whilst YOUR ancestors were kissing George III's royal pink A$$! People WANT to be free, mostly. Folks like you can't stand that. I wonder why that is? Can't control your own life so you need to control others' lives to compensate? Hmmmmm.
Get a life of your own, statist-boy, and leave your betters alone!
David Wright
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