Jesus Comments on Collapse of Tower and Victim's Suffering

Luke 13:1-9 | ~70AD | Luke, as inspired by The Holy Spirit

[Keyes For President]

Luke 13:1-9

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them-- do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, 'For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?' "'Sir,' the man replied, 'leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.'" (NIV)

[NYCVirago]

You wrote: If you think that telling people to repent and turn to God is callous, and that pointing out that those who died in the attack were no more guilty of sin and were no worse than the rest of us is insensitive, then I also pray that God has mercy on your "sick, twisted soul."

You can't understand how someone would find this comment offensive?:

For those of you who do not trust in Jesus alone, heed His warning, "unless you repent, you too will all perish." You can be right with God, but only through Jesus Christ. For more information, read the Bible.

And if you're Jewish, you're doomed?

Or this one?

God is sovereign. He lifts His hand of protection from us as a wake-up call to draw us nearer to Him. If we respond with repentance and call upon Him he will restore His blessings and lead us to victory. If not, He will allow our enemies to cut us down.

So, God allowed 5,000 innocent people to die as a "wake-up call" to follow Him? Was the rain on Friday, which slowed the rescue efforts, part of God's master plan as well? How about the wind spewing the smell of death all over Manhattan -- is that part of God's wake-up call too?

If, as you believe God wanted to send a message to the world to repent, why didn't He strike Clinton dead the first time Bubba strutted into church with Bible in hand after the Lewinsky scandal? It seems to me it would be slightly more effective in getting his point across.

[BibChr]

You provoke a thought in me. Might it be said that, while the error of the Pharisees was to assume a one-to-one relationship between sin and misfortune, the error of Americans tends to be to assume that there can be no relationship?

Sorry to hear about your daughter, BTW, and about people's insensitivity.

Dan

[AMMON-CENTRIST]

Praise the All-Mighty!!!

[BibChr]

Those are the sorts of questions the guys in the back of the classroom in Junior High ask to show everyone how big and bad and bold they are.

Here are some better, more productive ones.

• Does the Bible indicate that God sometimes brings open judgment on people and nations for their sin, in His own way and in His own time?
• Does Jesus indicate the proper way to view such a catastrophe?
• Has America engaged — openly and brazenly, shamelessly and proudly — in the sorts of behaviors the Bible says bring the judgment of God?
• That being the case, is it a better response for us to challenge and "twit" God yet further (as you seem to want to do), or to ask Him for still more undeserved favors (as most seem to be doing), or to humble ourselves in repetance (as Jesus urges us to do)?

Try those ones. You'll actually get somewhere worth going with them.

Dan
How Can I Know God?

[southern rock]

Amen! And we must all turn to Christ. All of us, Jew, Gentile, or Muslim, must trust only in Jesus Christ as there is no salvation apart from Him.

God orders us turn from our wicked ways

Agreed! However, we must be quick to point out that we are not turning from our wicked ways in order to please the Muslims. Some here the other day were suggesting that our sinfulness and moral decay as a nation is the reason the Muslims hate us so much and why they attack us. This is not only false but irrelevant. They do not have the moral high ground in this war.

Faith in Jesus Christ will be necessary to overcome this evil.

[RnMomof7]

Does the Bible indicate that God sometimes brings open judgment on people and nations for their sin, in His own way and in His own time?

Does Jesus indicate the proper way to view such a catastrophe?

Has America engaged — openly and brazenly, shamelessly and proudly — in the sorts of behaviors the Bible says bring the judgment of God?

That being the case, is it a better response for us to challenge and "twit" God yet further (as you seem to want to do), or to ask Him for still more undeserved favors (as most seem to be doing), or to humble ourselves in repetance (as Jesus urges us to do)?

Good questions ....

[Keyes For President]

Might it be said that, while the error of the Pharisees was to assume a one-to-one relationship between sin and misfortune, the error of Americans tends to be to assume that there can be no relationship?

I believe you are correct. We must not overlook the fact that these were unprovoked attacks by terrorists and so we have the right and the duty to fight back in defense of our God given freedoms. From an earthly standpoint, we as a nation did nothing to justifiably provoke the attacks upon us by our enemies.

But from a heavenly standpoint, everytime we sin we provoke God to anger, and it is only because of His grace, mercy and long-suffering that he continues to protect and bless us. But when as a nation we continue to provoke him, he will remove His hand of protection. Maybe in His mercy, He allowed this simply as a call to return to Him so we will continue to enjoy His blessings of freedom and liberty.

I pray as a nation the USA does repent and turn to Him.

In Christ,

[RnMomof7]

Amen! And we must all turn to Christ. All of us, Jew, Gentile, or Muslim, must trust only in Jesus Christ as there is no salvation apart from Him.

God orders us turn from our wicked ways

Agreed! However, we must be quick to point out that we are not turning from our wicked ways in order to please the Muslims. Some here the other day were suggesting that our sinfulness and moral decay as a nation is the reason the Muslims hate us so much and why they attack us. This is not only false but irrelevant. They do not have the moral high ground in this war.

Faith in Jesus Christ will be necessary to overcome this evil.

There is NO repentance or forgivness outside of Jesus Christ

That is not terribly Politically Correct..but I really don't care..

Now is the time to go to your knees and ask God to show you what you look like in His eyes..

Repent and give your life to Christ..

[Keyes For President]

From an earthly standpoint, we as a nation did nothing to justifiably provoke the attacks upon us by our enemies.

To address my own point I'd like to add that Jesus' words can be directed at the self righteous Muslim terrorists: "Or those 5000 who died when the tower in New York fell on them-- do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in the world? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

[Textide]

Unbelievable...you are truly a sick person.

[bluecollarman]

"If, as you believe God wanted to send a message to the world to repent, why didn't He strike Clinton dead the first time Bubba strutted into church with Bible in hand after the Lewinsky scandal? It seems to me it would be slightly more effective in getting his point across."

Striking Bubba dead would have made the world repent??????

Well.... you may take the rest of the week off. It is safe to assume the Almighty will not be checking in with you before he makes anymore of his major decisions.

[BibChr]

What kills me is, every thread where someone dares to suggest that there might be a connection between this catastrophe and America's bloody-handed national sins, oh-so-wise know-it-alls drop their jaws and commence blasting and mocking and blaspheming God, apparently blissfully unaware that, by so doing, (1) they are perfectly illustrating the despised point of the thread's author, and (2) identifying themselves as proud standard-bearers for The Problem, and sworn enemies of The Cure.

Dan

[rwfromkansas]

I suggest you read the Bible. While God does not do it often, he does deal with nations corporately sometimes in judgement. There is no indication this ended with the NT.

[WillRain]

IF you operate from the basic asumtion that all men are basicly good and are deserving of no punishment, then you are right that it is unfair for God to have allowed those folks to die...BUT
IF you operate from the Biblical position that ALL are sinners worthy of judgement and death when measured against the perfect standard of rightousness, then we can only reach the conclusion that God has not been unusually harsh with those who died, but unusually gracious with those of us who still live.

And BTW, those who died on Tuesday who had trusted Christ are enjoying the unspeakable blessings of heaven today and are far better off that they were on Monday. THEY were not "victims".

[BibChr]

Unbelievable...you are truly a sick person.

Would that be for believing Jesus? Or for saying it out loud?

Or for thinking that Jesus' clearly parallel words have some bearing on this situation?

Or for agreeing with Jesus that the sins He says we should repent of, we should repent of?

Which one is it? And what is your big problem with Jesus, anyway?

Dan
How Can I Know God?

[rwfromkansas]

god is sovereign over all. You may not believe it, but you will notice it once you are burning in hellfire.

[Campion]

So, God allowed 5,000 innocent people to die as a "wake-up call" to follow Him?

Does that bother you? Every one of those innocent people was going to die sometime anyway. I don't know why God chose to take them all on Tuesday. I can only trust that He can make some good come of it. If it wakes some people up to the truth of their own mortality and their need to repent and change their lives, so be it.

The Bible says very clearly that divine chastisement falls upon the good and on the evil. For the good, it is the chastisement of a father toward a beloved son or daughter, which we are admonished to patiently accept. For the evil, it is the punishment of a just judge toward a lawbreaker. Punishment, sometimes even the same punishment, is meted out toward good and evil, but with radically different meanings.

"The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether" -- Ps 19:9

[holyscroller]

The Bible is full of symbolism. There's also a law known as the Law of First Mention. Whatever something means the first time it is mentioned in the Old testament, it means throughout the rest of the Old and New Testaments. The Fig Tree is the symbolism for God's people, the Jews. In this instance, it means the Jews were not bearing fruit for God. However later in the bible, it tells us how we will know when we are at the beginning of the end times. It says when we see the Fig Tree rebloom, that generation will not pass away before the return of the Lord. The fig tree rebloomed in 1948 when Israel came together as a nation. We're in that generation. Look up, for your Redemption draweth nigh.

[Keyes For President]

The Fig Tree is the symbolism for God's people, the Jews. In this instance, it means the Jews were not bearing fruit for God. However later in the bible, it tells us how we will know when we are at the beginning of the end times. It says when we see the Fig Tree rebloom, that generation will not pass away before the return of the Lord. The fig tree rebloomed in 1948 when Israel came together as a nation. We're in that generation. Look up, for your Redemption draweth nigh.

Amen!

[Sueann]

"For more information, read the Bible"

More specifically, Romans 10:9-10 is the key. If you want to have a relationship with God, through Jesus, this is the scripture to use.