Posted on 09/13/2001 6:33:57 AM PDT by getoffmylawn
Nearly two days after the horrific suicide attacks on civilian workers in New York and Washington, it has become painfully clear that most Americans simply don't get it. From the president to passersby on the streets, the message seems to be the same: this is an inexplicable assault on freedom and democracy, which must be answered with overwhelming force - just as soon as someone can construct a credible account of who was actually responsible.
Shock, rage and grief there has been aplenty. But any glimmer of recognition of why people might have been driven to carry out such atrocities, sacrificing their own lives in the process - or why the United States is hated with such bitterness, not only in Arab and Muslim countries, but across the developing world - seems almost entirely absent. Perhaps it is too much to hope that, as rescue workers struggle to pull firefighters from the rubble, any but a small minority might make the connection between what has been visited upon them and what their government has visited upon large parts of the world.
But make that connection they must, if such tragedies are not to be repeated, potentially with even more devastating consequences. US political leaders are doing their people no favours by reinforcing popular ignorance with self-referential rhetoric. And the echoing chorus of Tony Blair, whose determination to bind Britain ever closer to US foreign policy ratchets up the threat to our own cities, will only fuel anti-western sentiment. So will calls for the defence of "civilisation", with its overtones of Samuel Huntington's poisonous theories of post-cold war confrontation between the west and Islam, heightening perceptions of racism and hypocrisy.
As Mahatma Gandhi famously remarked when asked his opinion of western civilisation, it would be a good idea. Since George Bush's father inaugurated his new world order a decade ago, the US, supported by its British ally, bestrides the world like a colossus. Unconstrained by any superpower rival or system of global governance, the US giant has rewritten the global financial and trading system in its own interest; ripped up a string of treaties it finds inconvenient; sent troops to every corner of the globe; bombed Afghanistan, Sudan, Yugoslavia and Iraq without troubling the United Nations; maintained a string of murderous embargos against recalcitrant regimes; and recklessly thrown its weight behind Israel's 34-year illegal military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as the Palestinian intifada rages.
If, as yesterday's Wall Street Journal insisted, the east coast carnage was the fruit of the Clinton administration's Munich-like appeasement of the Palestinians, the mind boggles as to what US Republicans imagine to be a Churchillian response.
It is this record of unabashed national egotism and arrogance that drives anti-Americanism among swaths of the world's population, for whom there is little democracy in the current distribution of global wealth and power. If it turns out that Tuesday's attacks were the work of Osama bin Laden's supporters, the sense that the Americans are once again reaping a dragons' teeth harvest they themselves sowed will be overwhelming.
It was the Americans, after all, who poured resources into the 1980s war against the Soviet-backed regime in Kabul, at a time when girls could go to school and women to work. Bin Laden and his mojahedin were armed and trained by the CIA and MI6, as Afghanistan was turned into a wasteland and its communist leader Najibullah left hanging from a Kabul lamp post with his genitals stuffed in his mouth.
But by then Bin Laden had turned against his American sponsors, while US-sponsored Pakistani intelligence had spawned the grotesque Taliban now protecting him. To punish its wayward Afghan offspring, the US subsequently forced through a sanctions regime which has helped push 4m to the brink of starvation, according to the latest UN figures, while Afghan refugees fan out across the world.
All this must doubtless seem remote to Americans desperately searching the debris of what is expected to be the largest-ever massacre on US soil - as must the killings of yet more Palestinians in the West Bank yesterday, or even the 2m estimated to have died in Congo's wars since the overthrow of the US-backed Mobutu regime. "What could some political thing have to do with blowing up office buildings during working hours?" one bewildered New Yorker asked yesterday.
Already, the Bush administration is assembling an international coalition for an Israeli-style war against terrorism, as if such counter-productive acts of outrage had an existence separate from the social conditions out of which they arise. But for every "terror network" that is rooted out, another will emerge - until the injustices and inequalities that produce them are addressed.
And lag time can be a bummer (so no harm done)
Look, I am willing to learn. If I can expand my understanding then I want to do so.
You said:
Not that the sources you referenced are totally off the deep end, but I think that the problems run much deeper than the cabal theory.
Can you provide sources that are accessible online for me to explore the "deeper" levels? If so, I want to do so.
I want retribution for this horrific attack, and I want ongoing suppression of attempts to commit future acts of terrorism against the US, by essentially any means necessary and effective to accomplish it.
That said:
(a) I don't perceive that getoffmylawn gave his post a straight up endorsement either by posting it or by his remark following the post, andI really do not like to perceive of the US as contributing to a vicious circle of unreasoning viciousness. For that reason I hope to see US foreign policy strictly guided by two principles: (a) the golden rule and (b) speak softly and carry a big stick. In other words, let us not be arrogant, unreasoned, and/or vicious. Let us treat others fairly and consistently and let us stay out of their affairs which do not concern us. But when the chips are down, when others even think about not treating us as respectfully as we have treated them, then the whole world needs to know that we have both the means and the will to let nothing stop us from having our way.(b) The article is not completely fallacious. Some implementations of US foreign policy have been both arrogant and frivolous. Particularly during the Clintoon years our behavior was almost always unreasoned and sometimes bordered on insanity (our behavior was in fact Clintoonian). Arrogant, unreasoned, vicious behavior undoubtedly has created enemies, some of whom are arrogant, unreasoned, vicious people.
Eliminate those leaders, the mullahs and fanatics like Bin Laden and the vast majority of these people will live peaceful and contended lives.
The biggest political mistake this country ever made was by Jimmy Carter, who toppled the Shah of Iran, who was the undesputed leader of all of the middle east, by supporting the exciled Iatollah KHomeini(SP). This allowed Iran's fanatical leader to take controll and spread their evil thru out the middle eastern countries.
You have hit the nail on the head: These "patriotic" and "macho" hysterics are actually a sign of feminization.
These people consistently speak in terms of push-button war from the air. They care nothing about what happens in the world, or to America, in the coming decades, whereas real masculinity is concerned about the long-term. It is typical of the homosexual, state-worshipping, fascist mentality not to care about the long run. Remember the fascistic, homosexual Keynes's dictum, when asked about the long-run implications of his money-printing nostrums: "In the long run, we are all dead."
They don't want to hear anything about American behavior that might actually have aroused hatred for America. Our killing of millions of people through bombs and starvation during the past fifteen years has nothing to do with it!
These "patriotic," "macho" people who are screaming for blood and bombs and destruction are having a screaming, epicene hissy fit. They are a symptom of the feminization of our society--only this feminization in their case is disguised by the fact that they are calling for blood.
Unfortunately, many here seem oblivious to your meaning. Our "educational" system, implemented by the socialist Dewey and his fellow travelers, seems to have succeeded beyond their wildest imaginings.
I fear that we have just witnessed our "Reichstag Fire".
The biggest political (sic!) mistake this country ever made has to install the Shah of Iran by CIA coup under Eisenhower. Or maybe it was to arm Saddam Hussein against Khomeini under Reagan. Or maybe it was to arm the Mugdaheddin under Reagan against the Soviets. Or maybe it was to attack Saddam Hussein under Bush the Elder. Or maybe it was to bomb Hussein under Clinton. Or to attempt to bribe the Isrealis and Palestinians into accepting a peace deal under Clinton.
STAY OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES AFFAIRS AND THEY WILL STAY OUT OF YOURS.
The biggest political (sic!) mistake this country ever made was to install the Shah of Iran by CIA coup under Eisenhower. Or maybe it was to arm Saddam Hussein against Khomeini under Reagan. Or maybe it was to arm the Mugahaddin under Reagan against the Soviets. Or maybe it was to attack Saddam Hussein under Bush the Elder. Or maybe it was to bomb Hussein under Clinton. Or maybe it was to attempt to bribe the Isrealis and Palestinians into accepting a peace deal under Clinton.
STAY OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES' AFFAIRS AND THEY WILL STAY OUT OF YOURS.
You have hit the nail on the head: These "patriotic" and "macho" hysterics are actually a sign of feminization.
These people consistently speak in terms of push-button war from the air. They care nothing about what happens in the world, or to America, in the coming decades, whereas real masculinity is concerned about the long-term. It is typical of the homosexual, state-worshipping, fascist mentality not to care about the long run. Remember the fascistic, homosexual Keynes's dictum, when asked about the long-run implications of his money-printing nostrums: "In the long run, we are all dead."
They don't want to hear anything about American behavior that might actually have aroused hatred for America. Our killing of millions of people through bombs and starvation during the past fifteen years has nothing to do with it!
These "patriotic," "macho" people who are screaming for blood and bombs and destruction are having a screaming, epicene hissy fit. They are a symptom of the feminization of our society--only this feminization in their case is disguised by the fact that they are calling for blood.
Doublethink.
Your arrogant claim to the "high ground" in this argument is a wonder to behold. Either we agree with you, or we're a bunch of bloodthirsty pansies.
Bite me.
Your arrogant claim to the "high ground" in this argument is a wonder to behold. Either we agree with you, or we're a bunch of bloodthirsty pansies.
Bite me.
I have been struggling for the right adjective for these people whose response to all this is "kill, kill, kill" and "bomb-them-back-to-the-stone-age" and "kill them all, women and children first" and "we must inflict pain" and "send them to hell," etc.
You have hit the nail on the head: These "patriotic" and "macho" hysterics are actually a sign of feminization.
These people consistently speak in terms of push-button war from the air. They care nothing about what happens in the world, or to America, in the coming decades, whereas real masculinity is concerned about the long-term. It is typical of the homosexual, state-worshipping, fascist mentality not to care about the long run. Remember the fascistic, homosexual Keynes's dictum, when asked about the long-run implications of his money-printing nostrums: "In the long run, we are all dead."
They don't want to hear anything about American behavior that might actually have aroused hatred for America. Our killing of millions of people through bombs and starvation during the past fifteen years has nothing to do with it!
These "patriotic," "macho" people who are screaming for blood and bombs and destruction are having a screaming, epicene hissy fit. They are a symptom of the feminization of our society--only this feminization in their case is disguised by the fact that they are calling for blood.
If that's what you think, then you are very shallow. Understanding does not mean approving. Psychologists regularly "understand" sick minds - without being sick themselves. Just because I understand something does NOT mean I approve or like it. Without understanding, we cannot properly deal with the problem.
The knuckle draggers are out in force today. After they have read Fred Reeds article. They are going to be primed for my next post.
165 Posted on 09/13/2001 08:51:50 PDT by BlueLancer
This is just another of his pre-fab posts; he's has his manure spreader out on at least one other thread.
Only if your definition of "apologist" is someone who fails to abandon reason in the face of horror. I could say there are a surprising number of "rabid warmongers" here this week, however to tell you the truth I really don't blame anyone for going into that mode in this situation. The only thing that holds me back is the belief that any "unbridled, unthinking response" will simply be steered in such a direction as to serve some other, third party's, interest, and not necessarily towards achieving true justice.
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