Posted on 09/12/2001 6:11:44 PM PDT by Temple Drake
Our Lady of Lepanto intercede for us!
Lets not forget Our Ladies intercession at the battle of New Orleans when her statue was processed before the British attempted to land. If I remember right a heavy fog covered the area and they were turned back.
You will look in vain for any Catholic source that describes any aspect of Catholic Marian spirituality as "sacrifice".
It is only because your own false, man-made religion has discarded the notion of sacrifice, falsely asserting that Christ's sacrifice ended at Calvary (in express contradiction to the Epistle to the Hebrews), that you now no longer understand what true worship is.
Veneration as a dictionary term is equivalent to worship.
Dictionaries don't define my theology. Do they define yours?
Martin luther doesn't have a book in the Bible.
No, but he does have a great deal more sense than you do.
And God's word condemns and Outlaws communion with the dead (which includes praying to them).
So, on the Mount of Transfiguration, Christ as committing an act condemned and outlawed by God by speaking to Moses and Elijah? That is what you just said. Thank you for demonstrating your willingness to contradict the Scripture in which you (falsely) claim to believe.
The Jews will tell you that very plainly.
I don't take theological advice from Jews, either. Do you?
Anyone who wants to question that need only study the isidorian decretals upon which pretty much All Catholic claims in temporal authority rests.
The temporal authority of the Pope is now restricted to a parcel of land smaller than Central Park in Manhattan. Any discussion of the temporal authority of the Pope or it's supposed basis in forgeries is relevant to this thread ... how?
Besides, the Orthodox venerate the Most Holy Mother of God with as much reverence as we Catholics do. Maybe you'd like to address your rant to them as well?
If one wants to learn from history, one actually needs to know history.. That doesn't stop at knowing a particular version of propaganda painted to portray it in the best light for a given side in the stories told.
You should take your own advice.
And there isn't a serious scholar on earth who will back you up on that statement. You're swallowing the lies propagated by your bigoted teachers like it was Holy Writ.
Only the unfortunate fact that they ultimately lost.
We will need to do better this time.....
Serious scholars? In my experience, anyone who doesn't agree with Catholics isn't considered a serious scholar by most Catholics; so, that must remain your opinion. As far as who's swallowing lies, you need to study history. I've put a great deal of time and money into my pursuits. I don't let others think for me. So, I didn't stop at reading anyone's particular view on the matter. Nor do I limit myself to single views. But I have grown used to being called everything under the sun for speaking the truth. I'm not surprised that I come in here expecting to converse and find others who actually know something and merely find myself being attacked by naysayers. I'll say that so far no one has been able to refute what I've said - no one. There's been a lot of lipservice paid to it. But the best I've seen has been attempts to make excuses and minimize Catholic blame, etc. Not one person has refuted substantially the first thing I've said.. because they can't or are too intellectually lazy to put the effort into trying. Those who have bothered to study the issue have managed to shed more light on it and discuss the issues; but, none has done more than support what I say with the evidence.
That's ok. I know I'm not attacked for ignorance but rather for your insecurities based in revelation that Catholicism founded much on forged books, decrees, letters and the like. The decretals are not the some total of Catholic Forgery. It's just a part of it. You guys wallow in your illusions. I've got better things to do.
Christianity has never put anyone to death for disagreeing with it. Catholicism and Extremist Muslims have. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. As far back as the Anabaptists and the founding of Christianity, you won't find people killing disbelievers in Christ. You'll find it in Catholicism; but not in Christianity. If you want to point the finger at someone, you need to examine your religion. We don't spew hatred, we don't murder people, we don't steal from them, lie to them, decieve and defraud people. Both your religions have this track record (fact not flame). Christianity does not have such a track record. So as for being flip sides of the same coin, Romanism on one side, Muslim on the other is a pretty good match.
Oh, just waiting for the rest of the crew to show up and fib about what they did in CC I suppose. If the rest of the audience hasn't been there and seen the proceedings, they can hardly deny what you say. I suppose they need to go read for themselves (oops). No they can't do that and see that you guys did your level best continually to change the subject because you couldn't refute the Bible or History presented by a handfull of Christians, proddies and a Jew. And there were more of you. I stick by God's word and truth so I don't have apologies to make nor boasts to puff up with. I've nothing to lose in speaking truth or God's word save maybe my life. And I'm happy to lose it for such things. To God be the GLORY. Have fun spinning your fictions. I'll be watching the cc threads for some evidence that you've actually studied something.
Stop spewing your BS and answer my question if you can.
Uh, excuse me; but, if you're trying to read tone, forget it. I talk evenly and I write evenly. No shouting or derisiveness just facts with no punches pulled. And If you say you aren't Catholic, that's fine by me. Am I less Christ like because I don't call this a nest of vipers, or call one of you a son of perdition. Show me where Jesus pulled punches and didn't call it like it was. Jesus didn't say be all touchy feely sweet. He said speak from love. Chastisement comes from love as much as a kiss. I don't need you to lecture me on such things. I speak the truth and let others make up their minds what they wish to believe. If you choose in error, that is your fault and I'm through with it because I've met my responsiblity to God so long as I obey Him. So once I've told you the truth, you can go to heaven or burn in hell - I'd rather the former than the latter; but, it's not up to me. It's up to you. (feet dusted).
They Witnessed. Christianity does all in all through it's witness not through clubs and swords. And the Attacks Muslims made early on were not against Christianity, they were against the sprawling Roman Empire which had subdued everything on earth. As the Empire crumbled, the Turks advanced and spread.. for better or worse. The Crusades are not and were not what they pretend to be in modern fiction. You don't restore "Christendome" by killing Jews on the way to the Holy land for practice, then looting every Church along the way for money and 'artifacts'. Christian principles were nowhere to be found - just a lust for land and riches - a secular quest.
Don't tell me you murdered Jews and Christians, as both the secular history and the Muslim History bears out, in an effort to restore Christendome. It was an effort to restore the territories of Rome to a new empire formed from the remnants of that pagan empire. The whole effort was braced up on lies and fraud. And it was greased with the Blood of Christians and Jews in favor of Catholic expansionism. The turks weren't evil to Catholicism, they were in the way. And they were paid little attention till the "Franj", as the Turks called them, had rested from killing Jews and Christians, sacking Churches and robbing villages.
Don't make demands of me. If you wan't to discuss History, we'll discuss it. But, I'm not going to back down from frank undisputeable truth. The facts are documented. They don't match the Catholic version of things. And that's what has you riled. I'm sorry if it upsets you. But I'm not the one who chose what you believe. Vent on me if you wish; but, you chose it. You defend it. History disproves the Catholic version. I don't need to.
They Witnessed. Christianity does all in all through it's witness not through clubs and swords. And the Attacks Muslims made early on were not against Christianity, they were against the sprawling Roman Empire which had subdued everything on earth. As the Empire crumbled, the Turks advanced and spread.. for better or worse. The Crusades are not and were not what they pretend to be in modern fiction. You don't restore "Christendome" by killing Jews on the way to the Holy land for practice, then looting every Church along the way for money and 'artifacts'. Christian principles were nowhere to be found - just a lust for land and riches - a secular quest.
Don't tell me you murdered Jews and Christians, as both the secular history and the Muslim History bears out, in an effort to restore Christendome. It was an effort to restore the territories of Rome to a new empire formed from the remnants of that pagan empire. The whole effort was braced up on lies and fraud. And it was greased with the Blood of Christians and Jews in favor of Catholic expansionism. The turks weren't evil to Catholicism, they were in the way. And they were paid little attention till the "Franj", as the Turks called them, had rested from killing Jews and Christians, sacking Churches and robbing villages.
Don't make demands of me. If you wan't to discuss History, we'll discuss it. But, I'm not going to back down from frank undisputeable truth. The facts are documented. They don't match the Catholic version of things. And that's what has you riled. I'm sorry if it upsets you. But I'm not the one who chose what you believe. Vent on me if you wish; but, you chose it. You defend it. History disproves the Catholic version. I don't need to.
Prove it. What church, when, where? Where can I read about this?
The facts are documented. They don't match the Catholic version of things.
Cite your sources.
Vent on me if you wish; but, you chose it. You defend it. History disproves the Catholic version. I don't need to.
That's because you can't. You're all bark and no bite.
Besides,NO ONE expects the Spanish Inqusition!!!!(In best John Cleese voice!)
I hadn't noticed that this thread was being used to make points.
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