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AIR SECURITY
Boston Globe ^ | 9/12/2001 | Sharon L. Crenson, AP

Posted on 09/12/2001 6:59:14 AM PDT by village idiot

AIR SECURITY

Knives permitted aboard planes

By Sharon L. Crenson, Associated Press, 9/12/2001

EW YORK - Passengers are sometimes allowed to carry knives on board airplanes.

That fact, published on the Federal Aviation Administration's Web site, probably played a role in at least three of the four hijackings that ended in disaster yesterday.

Barbara Olson, wife of US Solicitor General Theodore Olson, was on the American Airlines flight that crashed into the Pentagon. She told her husband during a cellphone call from the plane that the hijackers were using knifelike instruments.

Federal regulations state: ''FAA guidelines allow knives with blades up to 4 inches. However, state and local laws may restrict the carriage of smaller knives in a public airport. We recommend that you contact the airline to determine any additional restrictions it might apply.''

Two Associated Press journalists who travel frequently said they have dropped Swiss Army knives into plastic containers as they walked through airport metal detectors, only to pick them up afterward, and carry them aboard.

American Airlines, citing the government's ongoing investigation into four jetliner crashes, said it would be ''inappropriate'' to comment on its policies.

The airline's Web site suggests passengers check with someone before packing weapons such as ''firearms, ammunition, gunpowder, mace, tear gas, or pepperspray.'' The message does not specifically mention knives, but says items classified as dangerous goods ''may be restricted for transport by air.''

A spokeswoman for Air Canada said her company does not allow knives as carry-on property, and a former official with British Airways said the same.

British Airways often collects knives from passengers who attempt to bring them on board. The crew then stores the blades until the flight lands. The former British official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that carriers based abroad are usually more stringent about security than their domestic competitors.

While firearms are not permitted in passenger areas, some airlines do allow them to be stored in the baggage compartment.

Delta, for example, allows customers one item of ''shooting equipment'' as part of the passenger's free checked baggage.

The list of allowable weapons includes rifles, pistols, and up to 11 pounds of ammunition.

Customers checking a weapon must present it, unloaded, to a Delta employee, who is supposed to make sure it is in a locked, hard-sided, crushproof container to be stored below.

This story ran on page A5 of the Boston Globe on 9/12/2001. © Copyright 2001 Globe Newspaper Company

Extending our newspaper services to the web

© Copyright 2001 Globe Newspaper Company


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
As a passenger, I'd like to be armed!
1 posted on 09/12/2001 6:59:14 AM PDT by village idiot
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To: village idiot
I believe that the first thing people should realize is that the conventional wisdom, that this plot took a long time and a lot of sophistication to pull off, is completely wrong. That is what is so scary about it.

First off, they used utility knives. How hard would those be to smuggle past security? Even if they were detected, they probably would have let them carry them on. Especially if the blades were separated from the handles.

Second, to fly an 757 or 767 into a building is not that hard. As a consultant for Boeing, I was able to fly in a 767 simulator. I am only a private pilot with low hours, and yet I had no trouble flying that thing around. All they needed was some info on the location of a few buttons.

The biggest requirement for this operation was coordination and cash. Coordination is not that hard, as long as they were good at operational security. As far as cash, what would they need? Perhaps $5k max per terrorist X 12 = $60K. For a Saudi backed group, this is NOTHING. This is the frightening part of the whole scenario - how easy it was for them to do it.
2 posted on 09/12/2001 7:08:24 AM PDT by mrjeff
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To: village idiot
I wonder how many lives could have been saved if each plane had had a few armed law-abiding citizens.

A tragedy like this illustrates the wisdom of the founding fathers.

3 posted on 09/12/2001 7:10:44 AM PDT by Leaning towards Libertarian
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To: village idiot
I think they should hand out guns to all passengers as they board the plane. "This is your captain speaking, please return all 9mm semi-automatics to the bin on your left and .45s to the bin on your right while departing."
4 posted on 09/12/2001 7:12:11 AM PDT by leadpencil1
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To: leadpencil1
Return your seats to the upright position and carefully replace the pin in you grenade before releasing the handle!
5 posted on 09/12/2001 7:20:12 AM PDT by verity
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To: mrjeff
MrJeff, I couldn't agree with you more. And there's little reason to think the terrorists had structural engineering training, either, a point I've myself made in addition to the conclusions you reached on other posts last night and today.
6 posted on 09/12/2001 7:24:56 AM PDT by Real Cynic No More
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To: mrjeff
Agree with you about the ease of taking knives onboard. On the other hand, in all four planes the transponders (giving location, altitude, etc.) were immediately switched off by the hijackers. This is not an obvious or easy task -- requires extensive training to locate and know how to switch off.
7 posted on 09/12/2001 7:34:11 AM PDT by Viet Vet in Augusta GA
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To: Real Cynic
I very much doubt the terrorists realized how much damage they would end up causing.
8 posted on 09/12/2001 7:35:08 AM PDT by mrjeff
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To: mrjeff
I believe you are absolutely right: That would pay for first-class airfare for each operative plus a few knives. The only restriction that prevents a large number of copycat crimes is the number of homocidal pilots willing to kill themselves for what they see as the greater glory.

But let's look at the bright side: Timothy McVeigh's crime was also relatively simple and inexpensive to execute, and did not involve loss of life on the part of the terrorist. If there were really a lot of people out there looking for a plan for terrorism, there would have been rashes of copycats.

This act also required an aware and intelligent person to kill himself deliberately in the pursuit of his goal. I realize there are plenty of people in the Middle East who are very much inclined to do this, but how many of those know how to fly a plane?

I believe that most intelligent and aware people realize that terrorism's impact has been almost universally to retard the cause being promoted. If there are potential terrorists reading this, the strongest argument against terrorism is that Timothy McVeigh's act managed to double or triple Clinton's approval numbers and may well have saved his Presidency as the nation rallied behind him. This is most likely why terrorism is so rare considering how easy it is to do.

The same thing will most likely happen to Bush. I don't think the terrorists liked Bush; they may well have ensured him two terms.

D

9 posted on 09/12/2001 7:35:48 AM PDT by daviddennis
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To: Viet Vet in Augusta GA
Transponders were not immediately shut off. I also do not think it would take "extensive" training to learn how to do this. If you know the location of the thing and which buttons to push, you can do it. I read one article today that basically stated that they should check the logs every 67 and 57 simulator in the world. I think that will end up being a dead end because I do not believe that it required that level of training.
10 posted on 09/12/2001 7:38:35 AM PDT by mrjeff
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Viet Vet in Augusta GA
Agree with you about the ease of taking knives onboard.

My bagpipe band (The Keith Highlanders Pipe band) perform annually in Ketchikan, AK and in Mazatlan, and often fly in highland military uniform, kilt and all. I remember being allowed to board wearing our sgian dubhs ("black knife", the traditional stocking knife).

More recently I accidentally left mine in a carry-on bag but even then security let me carry it -- and this had a longer blade than a box knife.

12 posted on 09/12/2001 8:13:07 AM PDT by Eala
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To: mrjeff
I may be proven wrong about the simulators. Some indication they practiced on a simulator in Florida.
13 posted on 09/12/2001 9:07:39 AM PDT by mrjeff
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