Is It Time for a New "Concealed Carry" Category.........for Air Travel?

self | 09/11/01 | RightOnline

[Don Myers]

"Is it a good idea? "

I am always a sucker for self-defense empowerment.

[meta]

bump

[RightOnline]

Thanks. Me, too.

[RightOnline]

"Maybe they didn't know it was a suicide flight, they just thought they were being taken hostage."

Except the flight out of Boston that wound up crashing in PA. Apparently, as we're now beginning to find out, the passengers were TOLD that theirs was a "suicide flight", and they then decided to rush their attackers........knowing full-well that this would probably mean their deaths, but would deny the terrorists their intended target (White House??).

God in His Heaven, what heroes...........

[A+Bert (Outta here)]

Bumb. Well qualified people should have the right to carry a weapon and would have saved thousands of lives yesterday. Time to pass laws based on common sense rather than liberal fear blather.

[packrat01]

Concealing the sidearm is the easy part. Concealing the duct tape is what would give you away...

[thinking]

In the old days a man would ride on the stage-coach with a shotgun...known as riding shotgun...today it is simple, a man, you notice I said a man...not a woman, but a 180 lb man, with a rapid-free weapon sits with his back to the flight deck and facing the passengers....I recall flying out of Paris to south Africa on and Air France flight...they don't fool around on their flights 2 armed guards, that is the 2 that I saw, were seated by the strairs to the upper level and flight deck....

[stand watie]

WELL SAID! liberals FEAR people whom love freedom.

for dixie,sw

[stand watie]

NOPE, you are not remembering it wrong! the Sky Marshals program worked very well. the problem was that the LIBS hated the idea, as they said the marshals "might violate the civil rights of the accused"! i, for one, WANT the marshals to do exactly that, when someone is attempting to kill/maim innocent people!

for dixie,sw

[Squantos]

Frangable ammunition will not punch an airline cabin. Caliber and velocities of a 9mm or 45 ACP are all I have experience with in handgun/subgun caliber with that style bullet. The rifle calibers of .223 and .308 are also made in frangable style bullet.

The effect is same on human tissue but the compressed powder slugs will turn to dust if they hit any thing other than soft tissue. Closest thing available to civies I believe is Glaser Safety Slugs.

I'll reserve comment on the CHL allowed as any "good sleeper tango" could aquire said documents to carry the same as we would. An assigned Air Marshal(s) such as El Al uses with a side arm and a ballistic vest on every flight , a ballistic panel seperating cockpit from passengers and secured before any non-crew boards the AC is tanamount.

Granted one or two tangos pop up with firearms carried legally then ya have 4 or 5 more good guys react.....good ?, bad ?, I don't know.........I know I've flown my last commercial AC in this or any other country until "I" Know the Air Marshal program is back or each individual carrier contracts "real" security versus the rent a cop for minimum wage.

Now I'm not saying the Burns /Wells fargo type rent a cop were the failure here. They are good folks who try and do in most cases a great job. What I'm saying is educate, test, and give incentive through benefits of wage and training the desire to be above board and 100% alert 100% of the time through a program of time "on" and "off" eyeballing the x-ray or public to short periods that demand peak attention which cannot be usefully maintained by "anyone" for a 8 hour shift. watch and detect for an hour, walk and observe for an hour sort of plan.

I apologize for ideas of quick fixes but just have a need as most do to vent during this horrific time in our lives.

Just my opinions.........Right or wrong , mine Stay Safe.

[Clint N. Suhks]

He immediately gets his wish, courtesy of about a dozen other passengers who DID use rounds that don't overpenetrate. Next, one of the flight attendants gets out the duct tape and starts Spacklin' holes...

I can see that.

[TEXASPROUD]

Agree with y'all about Mag Safe's. I've seen 3 patients brought into the ER that had been shot with the gold dot opened up to .70-.72 cal and didn't leave the chest. I've seen a couple shot with Mag Safe pretty badly mangled as well. All are good rounds. Mag Safe are probably safer for the cabin. Thanks for the input.

[harpseal]

I for one believe that the 9mm and .45acp calibers would be appropriate with the correct ammunition. The Galser is a good start but it could be improved upon. There are some possibilities with synthetic bullets at short range which will not penetrate the aircraft but would stop a Tango. I would also suggest inspection of firearms for the correct ammunition at each boarding. International flights would need some facility for keeping said weapons secure while in a foreign nation that does not allow same.

At a minimum the cockpit crew should have ballistic protection from passengers and arms. Terrorists do not function well in armed society.

I certainly agree that it is potentially a good initial suggestion for a response. See my post #52 here

Stay well - Yorktown

[Travis McGee]

I think that even the libs could be swayed over to the "Civilian Volunteer Sky Marshal" concept if we promote it carefully.

/1/ Don't say "CCW", libs hate it.

/2/ Only permit former military specops and MPs and former or active LEOs to do it. Libs have blind faith in the "trained expert" category, while they think that conservatives with CCWs are insane yokels. Just don't tell them that 50% of CCW holders will qualify as "trained experts".

/3/ Mandate attending a special one week training course. Libs also have blind trust in this, so they will "buy" it.

If we do these things, no problemo. Also, let all pilots get a CCW in their home state and carry. The pilot can already kill everyone on board, why not let him protect himself and thereby the rest of the pax? If you can't trust the pilots with a pistol, we need to chop up all the planes for scrap.

[stand watie]

incidently, i FULLY SUPPORT a special CCW on planes for cleared/BI'd common citizens, who can hit what they (may HAVE to)aim at!

perhaps such volunteers should be listed/cleared/ sworn-in(???) by the USMS.

a 38spl/44spl w/glasers is about right for indoor shooting!

for dixie,sw

[Virginia-American]

Even had a *liberal* agree with me yesterday that armed passengers would've stopped the terrorists

[TEXASPROUD]

Watch out Travis, you're making too much sense.

[LonePalm]

Hey Travis,
Would I qualify? I am a former Naval Intelligence officer. The last time I shot for qualification, I got 498 out of 500 on the combat course at Ft. Drum with a standard issue .45 pistol. That's with 15 rounds off-hand. Although for close quarters I prefer a short stock, short barrel pump-action shotgun with #6 shot. It's what I used to grab on ship. It's a little hard to conceal but ideal for chewing up meat without breaking equipment too badly.

Deal me in.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic!)

[Skibane]

The common concensus among the TV pundits is that "after the terrorists got on the plane, there was nothing anyone could do." This may be true in the present framework of federal firearms regulations, but it didn't have to be that way. By all indications, even ONE passenger with a gun could have taken out these punks.

In some regards, from this day on, the rules have changed. All hijacked passengers now know that not only may they be headed for a gruesome, terrifying death, but that their complacency in accepting it may result in the deaths of other innocent people on the ground. In this new era using of “hijacked planes as cruise missiles”, we need to get our priorities straight. Worrying about whether a Glasser will put a bullet hole in the plane is pretty stupid when you’re trying to prevent hundreds or thousands of innocent people from dying.

Again, putting “Air Marshalls” on planes is mostly a useless gesture. The planes in these incidents had just 50 to 60 passengers on them, tops. You think the authorities are going to bother with routinely putting EVEN ONE cop on planes that small? Worse yet, just about ANY size plane could be hijacked for this purpose. We can’t put marshalls on all of them, let alone in sufficient numbers to do much good.

Again, instituting an Air Travel CCW program is the solution that stands the best chance of actually being effective.

[RightOnline]

The more I've thought about this concept......the more people I've bounced it off of today (since posting this last evening), the more I hear about events on these hijacked aircraft, the more bonehead ideas I hear from government Talking Heads (and others) on TV for so-called "solutions"............the more I'm convinced that it's a damned good idea.