Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Hungary opts for Swedish Gripens over US F-16s
AFP | 9/10

Posted on 09/10/2001 6:49:00 AM PDT by oxi-nato

BUDAPEST, Sept 10 (AFP) - Hungary's national security cabinet chose Sweden's Gripen fighter aircraft over US F-16's to modernise its airfleet after joining NATO in 1999, Defense Minister Janos Szabo told a press conference Monday.

"The national security cabinet decided that the Swedish government's offer is the most advantegeous from national security and, primarily, for economic reasons," said Szabo.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-20, 21-36 next last

1 posted on 09/10/2001 6:49:00 AM PDT by oxi-nato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: oxi-nato
Seems reasonable to me. Buying new F-16s makes no more sense than buying a fleet of new 1976 Oldsmobiles.

So9

2 posted on 09/10/2001 7:06:46 AM PDT by Servant of the Nine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: oxi-nato

3 posted on 09/10/2001 7:11:57 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Nine
"Seems reasonable to me. Buying new F-16s makes no more sense than buying a fleet of new 1976 Oldsmobiles" You obviously don't know anything about the price of the Gripen nor the combat capability of the F-16.
4 posted on 09/10/2001 7:49:24 AM PDT by ScreamingFist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: oxi-nato
Is that the same jet that Saab makes? It's in one of their commercials.

Just curious,
CD

5 posted on 09/10/2001 7:53:23 AM PDT by Constitution Day
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Constitution Day
That's the one. www.gripen.saab.se
6 posted on 09/10/2001 7:59:54 AM PDT by anguish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Nine, ScreamingFist
The Israelis, for whom air defense is deadly serious, just ordered more F-16s.
7 posted on 09/10/2001 8:05:24 AM PDT by dighton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: dighton
Lockheed Martin's F-16 continues to be the world's most successful fighter aircraft. Since the late 1970s, more than 3,650 single-engine F-16s have been delivered to 19 air forces, including more than 2,200 purchased by the US Air Force, and 13 countries have made at least one follow-on buy. The United Arab Emirates unoffically told the Pentagon in July that it had selected the F-16C/D over the Eurofighter and the Rafale for a potential 80-aircraft order worth more than $5 billion. Saudi Arabia is also a likely future F-16 customer.

Avionics and engine upgrades over the years have steadily increased the F-16's performance and kept the latest version of the aircraft state-of-the-art. Lockeed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems already has a backlog of orders for about 350 F-16s, which cost about $25 million per copy on the export market, through the year 2000.

8 posted on 09/10/2001 8:08:58 AM PDT by ScreamingFist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: oxi-nato
Slightly surprising. When a country doesn't go for the F-16, usually they buy Mirages from the French. The Israelis also produce a fighter whose name escapes me for the moment.

Regards, Ivan

FREE BRITANNIA
9 posted on 09/10/2001 8:09:46 AM PDT by MadIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MadIvan
Kfir I believe
10 posted on 09/10/2001 8:11:20 AM PDT by AppyPappy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: MadIvan
Kfir is very dated but was Israeli built. The Lavi was an Israeli prototype, your basic F-16 with canards, it was cancelled in the late 80 because of high production costs.
11 posted on 09/10/2001 8:26:48 AM PDT by ScreamingFist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: anguish
There's an article on the website which indicates that GE is involved in the deal. At least we're not completely out of it.

Still, I'm surprised given the work we've done towards Hungary's admission to NATO and the facilities we have currently in place down there.

12 posted on 09/10/2001 8:33:40 AM PDT by 12B
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: MadIvan
greece has made its final order for f-16's and will opt for the eurofighter.

the reason is economics where greece will have the opportunity to produce 10% of all eurofighter production.

the other is well more economics where european nations would rather keep their money in their back yard insteade of shipping it over to the u.s.

the u.s. domination in weapons sales will never be overtaken but the competition from around the world will take more of the share away from the u.s.

13 posted on 09/10/2001 8:40:43 AM PDT by oxi-nato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: MadIvan
Madivan,m there is a good read here, comparison of Grippen and Mirage by Chilean AF

The point is that Swedish Volvo makes engines under Genderal Electric license and US can stop this deal any time.

Article includes some pun on Gringo tech along the tune of Johnny Cash's "It's a '60, '61, '62, '63, '64, '65, '66, '67
'68, '69, '70 automobile.

To my understanding, if F-16's were ordered today, they would be delivered no earlier than 2008. Technology older than the pilots flying it.

Anyone from Sweden to comment?

14 posted on 09/10/2001 8:40:51 AM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: DTA
To my pleasant surprise, it appears the British have a share in building the fighter and it is more advanced than the Mirage. Brilliant, really.

Regards, Ivan
15 posted on 09/10/2001 8:45:17 AM PDT by MadIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: DTA
"It is said that the FACH commander prefers the Grippen above the Mirage, while the Defense Minister favors the american F-16, of course these being only rumours that appear on the aviation press." The F-16 is still in the running for Chile. The author in your link does not point out that the Chileans were originally interested in the Pakistani aircraft, which are currently mothballed, that were not delivered to Pakistan after the test of their nuclear bomb. These are the "older" F-16 aircraft he alluded to. New Zealand had originally planed on purchasing those aircraft, but backed out after their new socialist leader decided New Zealand has no need of air defense. It's also interesting to note that the Gripen relies on the US made AMRAAM as it's primary medium range weapon. The US export version of the AMRAAM is a reduced capability missile as compared to the non-export version.
16 posted on 09/10/2001 9:14:54 AM PDT by ScreamingFist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 12B
There's an article on the website which indicates that GE is involved in the deal

Yeah. The Gripen ("Griffin") is using a modified General Electric engine, and there are possible more parts done by or with the cooperation of GE. As it would be less than cost efficient to re-invent the wheel, quite a few parts of the aircraft are "imported". Other American parterns include Lockheed Martin, Sundstrand, Honeywell, Kaiser, and Rockwell. BAe (British Aerospace) is also involved, mostly because of their global sales organization and the NATO conversion needed for NATO and NATO-wannabe customers.

Still, I'm surprised given the work we've done towards Hungary's admission to NATO and the facilities we have currently in place down there.

Nothing beats economics. The Hungarians simply concluded that the Gripen would be more cost-effective than the F-16. One of the major problems has been armament since some of the missiles used by the Swedish Airforce are American makes (AMRAAM, Sidewinder, Maverick). However, since the European missile projects (such as IRIS-T and METEOR) will pretty much void the need of these missiles, the American say on where Saab/BAe can sell their aircraft will be reduced. A positive side effect (for Saab/BAe) of this is that the US is giving an opening on the American missiles for prospective customers. After all, selling missiles is better than not selling anything at all.

17 posted on 09/10/2001 9:18:03 AM PDT by anguish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: DTA
Anyone from Sweden to comment?

I'm already commenting :)

The point is that Swedish Volvo makes engines under Genderal Electric license and US can stop this deal any time.

Word is that Saab already have conversion plans for other engines. Since more parts are made by American companies, things get a bit complicated. I don't really know if the sale of those are subject to any US "veto". Anyway, I can't see the US being such a sore loser over an export contract to Hungary. I'd be quite different if Saab/BAe tried to sell Gripen to Iraq.

Technology older than the pilots flying it.

True and false. It really depends on what batch and type of F-16 we're talking about. Batch 60 (I think) is quite up-to-date and is very much a capable rival to newer aircraft. Somewhere there's a limit to these upgrades though, and with an older airframe like the F-16 you'll most likely find it closer up in time than the Gripen.

18 posted on 09/10/2001 9:59:40 AM PDT by anguish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 12B
The Gripens I belive uses a model of the GE404 same as the F18 (However the F18 used two while there is only one in the Gripens)
19 posted on 09/10/2001 10:05:35 AM PDT by tophat9000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: oxi-nato
The Magyars are simply making a wise political decision, they don't want to exchange domination by one overbearing militaristic superpower for another.

Swedish supply makes perfect sense, look to see more of the same.

20 posted on 09/10/2001 10:07:03 AM PDT by vooch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-20, 21-36 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson