Posted on 09/09/2001 2:35:16 PM PDT by CHIEF negotiator
Illegal Aliens:
Illegal aliens do not contribute to our tax base. They will “work for less” on a cash basis, because they will not have payroll taxes taken out of their pay, nor will they pay an income tax. As a result, money earned in the United States (untaxed) is sent to their home countries, where that dollar will purchase much more for less. It’s difficult to put the blame on these people, when all they want to do is provide for their family back home. If they don’t have a green card, they are gathered up and sent home. The isolationists want to build a fence, similar to the Berlin Wall, to eliminate “the great sucking sound” of money leaving America going to Third World countries. The radicals want them shot on the spot!
Unequal Trade:
Due to corporate income taxes and resulting compliance costs, every item manufactured and sold in the United States, or exported for that matter, is inflated in price 20% to 30%, according to Dr. Dale Jorgenson, Chairman of the Economics Department at Harvard University. The variable is the number of stages a product must go through before reaching the end use consumer. As a result, manufacturers move their plants off-shore for tax reasons, and jobs are lost. No U.S. based business has ever “paid” a tax. They always “collect” the tax in the form of higher prices, lower wages, and less return on investment (ROI).
Economy:
Our existing tax system hampers much needed economic growth. History has proven that when taxes are lowered, revenue increases. People tend to make more, spend more, and shelter less. President Kennedy proved that a rising tide lifts all boats, and President Reagan doubled the revenue when the top tax rates were cut from 70% to 28%. The newly elected G.O.P. Congress in 1994 proved that when Capital Gains taxes were cut from 28% to 20%, revenue flowed into D.C. and the economy exploded.
Solution to Illegal Aliens:
In order to make illegal aliens contribute to the tax base, taxing “consumption” is the only method available to assure that “tax free income” is taxed before leaving the United States. If a federal consumption tax were to replace an income tax, not only will illegal aliens contribute to the tax base, but also “legal aliens” and those that earn their living illegally – drug dealers, loan sharks, prostitutes, etc. Every time they purchase new goods and service, eventhough they have not paid an income tax, they will be forced into becoming tax payers with every purchase.
Solution to Unequal Trade:
If we were to abolish the abusive, intrusive, incomprehensible income tax system and adopt a federal consumption tax, all goods would be exported at cost minus 20% to 30%, while imports would arrive at cost plus 23%. We would finally be on an equal footing with companies that import their products to the United States.
Rep. Bill Archer, Former Chairman, House Ways and Means Committee:
Imagine how much “job creating” capital would flow into the United States, once the consumption tax is adopted . . . not to mention all of the taxpatriots who have taken their wealth off-shore. They can repatriate TAX FREE!
Solutions to the Economy:
A “federal consumption tax” is a more reliable form of revenue than an “income tax”. You may be without a job for awhile, but you must “consume”. Not only will everyone receive 100% of their paycheck, but they will also receive a Family Consumption Allowance to assure no one pays the consumption tax for the necessities of life. I doubt people will reduce their buying habits with more money in their pockets!
It can be and will be a win win.
Fox and Bush are both better than any realistic alternatives as respecive presidents (emphasis on realistic).
[Borders] are good to keep [drugs] and [bombs] out...period!
I do not respond to these threads because I have found ~~~ reading most of the comments ~~~ that there are lots of folks who are talking out of their hats ... out of turn ... without first hand knowledge ....
I have a small landscaping business .... I employ 16-19 Mexicans ... working through an interpreter ... each and every one of them is now legal ... though they did not start out that way.
I live in Maryland ~~~ can you imagine the courage it took these guys to make it this far North?!
They did not just drunkenly roll over the border ... they had to ... or, at least they were made to... feel like ... they had to hide ~~~~~ run ... not eat ... or sleep ... to get far enough away that they were safe?!
If this is not what our great Country is about ... than what have we been doing all these many years?!
They hear Lady Liberty singing and want to join the chorus.
So.
Let's be practical ... it was a nightmare getting them citizenship ... it should not be easy ~~~ but it should also not be so stupid.
I taught my guys how to read ~~~ so they could take the tests ... but the instructtor ...COULD NOT FILL OUT THE FORMS PROPERLY and kept misspelling a newborn Patriot's name!!! ...
Honestly ... you ... well... most of you ...are looking at the problem with no thought, whatsoever ... to a solution....
And we are bein' denied Patriots ~~~ who know more about election fraud than
we
will
ever
know ....
Yearning to be FREE
Isn't that the phrase?!
Indeed, their country does ... even as I wade through your sarcasm ...
All of the good and earnest workers ... well, lots of them, anyway .. are leaving Mexico.
I know that my guys send a large portion of what I pay them back to their homeland ... but this does not solve the problem ...
Mexico is depleted of its best workers ... because it is unable to supply them with a way to make a living ... we are inundated with illegal workers ... some good ... some not
At the present time ... no one wins ...
Care to offer a solution?!
Our President, it seems to me, is trying to come up with a formula which injures neither country ... tough row to hoe, that ...
Social security faces what I call a "demographic time bomb", which I am sure all FReepers are familiar with. As Congressman Linder said at his recent Town Hall meeting, the only way to really address the fundamental issue is to place the funding mechanism on the entire economy, rather than holding it hostage to the ratio between workers and retirees. The Fairtax is the ONLY proposal that addresses the fundamental problem with social security. Every other approach that I have heard simply buys time and makes it likely that we will have a bigger problem to face 10-15 years from now than we do now.
Another seemingly unrelated issue is Campaign Finance Reform. Just over 50% of the lobbyists registered in Washington lobby, at least in part, on the tax code. If we went with a much simpler system, a big part of the reason for their existence would be gone. This would decrease the influence of money over the political and legislative process, which is the aim of Campaign Finance Reform. BTW, the FairTax will be documented in app. 100 pps; our current system requires almost 30,000 pps (including IRS regs). That's a 99.7% reduction - how's THAT for simplification? On the other hand, if 50% of lobbyists are involved in promoting manipulations of the tax code, what does that tell you about how our elected representatives spend their time and energy? Isn't it reasonable to anticipate that a number of other issues that need their attention could be addressed if we simplified to that extent?
As Chief pointed out, part of the solution is the FairTax, which would convert illegals from being a drain on the public system (since they use government services, even though they don't pay taxes to fund them). Because they would not be eligible for the PCA/rebate without a valid Social security number, they would pay the NRST on dollar one of their purchases. In effect they would be paying a HIGHER tax rate than native born citizens and legal immigrants.
It will be so easy for these people to sidestep any consumption tax. Black markets already exist for tobacco products, and of course narcotics.
Let's see, the government will have to levy consumption taxes on yard and garage sales to ensure illegals don't buy hand-me-downs without paying tax. And the vans loaded with tortillas should be stripped searched every one of them. Yeah, that's a great idea.
I hobnob with these people from time-to-time, and they know me as someone who wants them to learn English, but otherwise I am a no-threat gringo, so I let them think.
Although I appear here as a bigot-racist, I assure you that it is Castro and the migrant moguls that are the targets of my wrath. There are forces behind this illegal invasion, and a consumption tax is not going to stop them.
As for the Bill, it has merit but not in the illegal invasion context. That's stretching it too far,wouldn't you agree? You can read the Bill all you want, people behind the scenes will laugh at you, as they are now when they read your retorts.
The NRST will not suffer from compliance problems for the following reasons:
2. Even among the much smaller retailer universe, states can focus their attention on the largest retailers. In California, for instance, 90 percent of the revenue is collected by only 10 percent of the retailers. (These retailers are already used to dealing with this burden and will be compensated for it.)
3. The states already have the mechanisms and experience in place to enforce the sales tax. Local administration will mean better compliance rates.
4. States will have incentives to enforce the sales tax because: 1) the more they collect, the more they can keep in their administrative allowance; and 2) since the bill requires administering states to conform their sales tax base to the federal base, states will have to collect the federal tax in order to collect their own tax.
What really is the issue is that these individuals came here illegally, breaking the laws of two countries in doing so. Many of them still are here illegally although there is an entire industry in providing fake documentation to make them seem "legal". Many of these illegal aliens - and there are far more that the 3 million quoted by the government - are still illegal and have no real interest in becoming US citizens; they merely want all of the benefits at no cost to themselves such as having their children born free of charge in Los Angeles Country General Hospital on the US taxpayer ticket.
Many of these "good people" in fact seriously want to invalidate the treaty of 1848 and remake the entire southwestern US as part of Mexico complete with their language. It is a serious movement among many of them - and why not; they have no alliegance to this country since they at best have dual citizenship in Mexico. I see no justification for that.
The employees you are using may now be legal citizens and moral, well-intentioned hard workers. That doesn't change the fact that they have broken the law and lived for quite some time on taxpayer-footed expenses to some degree. Many still are doing that.
For these sorts of illegal aliens still not contributing to the tax base (and most do not), they will be paying taxes when they purchase taxable items under the NRST and helping reduce our tax burden - as will foreign tourists and those deriving illegal income.
The issue is not what kind of people illegal aliens are; it's why are they here illegally when many who have followed the rules have not yet been able to become citizens by following the law. That's wrong.
Little Willie was "The Worst President In American History".
Are you somehow proposing that most people will buy most things, somehow, without paying the sales tax? If so, that would be strange indeed since it would mean a merchant is giving a consumer the benefit of not paying the sales tax while at the same time assuming the risk himself of paying the tax plus any civil and criminal penalties for no reward at all. Why would any businessman do that?
You really do need to become informed about the FairTax since it is apparent you are not.
Little Willie was "The Worst President In American History".
Well now. You say "my guys" which I presume ILLEGAL migrants working for you. If that is the case then you really have a lot of nerve pontificating. Employing ILLEGAL migrants is against the law. So, there is the case of an ILLEGAL migrant lawbreaker being employed ILLEGALY by an American. Both you and "your guys" are lawbreakers.
If "your guys" are LEGAL immigrants then what are you jabbering about because the issue here is ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
You've already convinced yourself there are no black markets on Indian reservations, so why should anyone bother to answer your questions. Also, since I object to the conclusion drawn regarding the effect of the NRST on illegal immigration, prostitution and what-not, then I must me ignorant. Well it sounds like you have the argument all wrapped up. Give yourself a pat on the back!
I can hear the laughing from afar....
Little Willie was "The Worst President In American History".
The income they earn today is tax free. That income is not taxed when they purchase food, clothing, and shelter...except for a small state sales tax and excise tax. Under the FairTax, they will finally contribute to the tax base. Why would you be against illegals paying for the benefits of living and working in America that go untaxed today?
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