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'Satanic' Bush is on anti-abortion website's hit list
News.Telegraph.co.uk ^ | 09/09/2001 | David Wastell

Posted on 09/09/2001 10:36:26 AM PDT by Servant of the Nine

THE name of President George W Bush has been added to an internet "hit list" compiled by anti-abortion campaigners after his decision to allow federal funding for limited human embryo stem-cell research.

The Nuremberg Files website has been accused of inciting violence against doctors and medical staff involved in abortions. The main section, called Baby Butchers and Butchered, lists 421 names - plus addresses, car registration numbers and family details - of abortion practitioners and their "accomplices".

Those who are dead - mostly women who have died as a result of a pregnancy termination - have a line scored through their names. The list of "fatalities" also includes Dr Barnett Slepian, a gynaecologist shot dead at his home near Buffalo, New York, by an anti-abortion protester in 1998.

Mr Bush is a staunch opponent of abortion. His first executive order on entering the White House in January banned international agencies from using American funds to pay for abortion services in developing countries, a move that delighted his conservative supporters.

Despite this clear stand, the Nuremberg Files website, it emerged last week, has targeted him as "a living embodiment of the fact that a Christian might live on Earth in the here and now as an evil collaborator with baby-butchers whose conscience has been totally defiled by the wiles of Satan".

The inclusion of the American leader comes after his decision last month to approve the use of taxpayers' money for limited research involving human embryonic stem cells, which many scientists believe could lead to cures for a range of diseases.

Many anti-abortionists applauded Mr Bush's decision to restrict federally-funded research to 60 "lines" of embryonic stem cells already being grown, so that further embryos are not destroyed for research purposes.

Some were furious, however, that he did not impose the outright ban that he appeared to promise during his election campaign. Neal Horsley, the site's creator, told an anti-abortion news service: "Bush's stem-cell research decision is a covenant with the Devil."

Some influential anti-abortion groups are unhappy about the hit list. Olivia Gans, of the National Right to Life Committee, said some people who looked at the Nuremberg Files were "mentally disturbed".

The site has adopted the name of the German city where Nazi leaders were tried for war crimes. Leading supporters of abortion or those described as "their mouthpieces" are all accused of "crimes against humanity" and anti-abortionists are urged to gather evidence against them for use in a future trial.

Earlier this year, a federal court ruled that closing the website would breach the American constitutional right to free speech.


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This little stunt just might get "The Nurenburg Files" shut down. Threatening the life of the President is a Felony, and Judges are gonna regard it differently than threatening Abortion Doctors.

So9

1 posted on 09/09/2001 10:36:26 AM PDT by Servant of the Nine
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To: JMJ333
Put me down for a bigger tent.
2 posted on 09/09/2001 10:43:26 AM PDT by gcruse
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To: Servant of the Nine
I'm completely opposed to the idea of this website.

That said, it is the response most logically consistent with pro-life rhetoric. If abortion is murder and millions of your countrymen are being legally slaughtered, I'd say the moral path would be to oppose these actions with utmost force.
3 posted on 09/09/2001 10:49:22 AM PDT by Belial
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To: gcruse
Two tacos shy of a combonation--
4 posted on 09/09/2001 10:54:14 AM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Servant of the Nine
I'm not saying this is the right way to handle Bush's decision, but as I've said before, it was an inconceivable moral and political mistake on Bush's part. It's one thing for Bush to be politically prudent and only undertake to do what is politically possible under the Supreme Court's arbitrary and tyrannical regime. It's quite another thing freely and voluntarily to open a whole new area to the Culture of Death, which is what Bush did with his fetal stem cell decision. As for the National Right-to-Life Committee, it's a typical wishy-washy, eager-to-compromise outfit that can't be counted on in the clutch. It's not surprising that the mainstream press like to quote from them on occasions like this one.

As I've also said before, Bush has mortally offended a lot of people with this stupid decision. Like Roe v. Wade it's something that will never go away. The Democrats and the body-part salesmen will keep bringing it back up and chipping away at it until he or his successor gives in again. It will lose Bush a substantial number of votes in the next election.

5 posted on 09/09/2001 10:55:41 AM PDT by Cicero
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To: Servant of the Nine
This little stunt just might get "The Nurenburg Files" shut down.

It probably will, and I kind of hope it does. It will teach them to be smarter about their cause. Adding the President's name to the list marginalizes their website in order to gain some press. You have to figure that the real goal of these sites is to scare doctors enough so that they won't do abortions. If I were a doctor, websites like this would be enough to scare the crap out of me. Adding Bush really does nothing for them in this regard.

Regardless of how they feel, GW is their biggest public ally in the fight against abortion.
6 posted on 09/09/2001 10:58:48 AM PDT by July 4th
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To: Servant of the Nine
Although I am not a fan of website's such as these. It is doubtful that this website actually threatened George W. Bush's life and it is important to remember that they do have a constitutional right of free speech to put whomever they want on a list which to the best of my knowledge, names people whom they believe are hindering the pro-life cause. Without the website's creators actually committing an outright crime, it would not be the duty of any court system to interpret whether or not they will in the future when there has been no crime committed in the present or the past. Remember, when one starts to limit the rights of another, so do their rights end also.
7 posted on 09/09/2001 11:04:27 AM PDT by Rebeckie
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To: Belial
If abortion is murder and millions of your countrymen are being legally slaughtered,

If they are being legally slaughtered, then it is not nurder. Murder is an unlawful killing.

So9

8 posted on 09/09/2001 11:06:56 AM PDT by Servant of the Nine
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To: Rebeckie
It is doubtful that this website actually threatened George W. Bush's life and it is important to remember that they do have a constitutional right of free speech to put whomever they want on a list which to the best of my knowledge, names people whom they believe are hindering the pro-life cause.

Anyone who doesn't know that Neil Horsely wouldn't mind a little violence against the people he names hasn't heard him.

He was on FOXNEWS last Thursday, and accused John Gibson of complicity in murder because Gibson didn't feature pictures of aborted babies on his show.

Horsely may have a right to free speech, but I'll bet he's already been visited by the Secret Service, and they're going to watch him like a hawk.

Horsely does as much damage to the pro-life movement with stuff like this and the "abortion webcam" as Kate Michaelman does.

9 posted on 09/09/2001 11:12:04 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Servant of the Nine
Couldn't tell it by all the Keyes' articles lately. Maybe Keyes lives in his own realities.
10 posted on 09/09/2001 11:12:12 AM PDT by marajade (maraskywalker@earthlink.net)
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To: Servant of the Nine
Exactly, abortion does not fit the definition of murder. Even "killing" with the insinuation of homicide is off the mark.
11 posted on 09/09/2001 11:14:38 AM PDT by Belial
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To: Servant of the Nine
Many Americans believe that a murder is an unlawful killing in God's eyes. It would be detrimental for a society to derive their morals and ethics from themselves because we are not perfect and one's logic can all too often be flawed and one's conscience all too easily corrupted. We have derived many our legislated moral laws such as that one cannot murder or steal from the ten commandments in the Bible. Our nation first started with a number of puritians and pilgrims coming over to this country whom even went so far as to make their local governments somewhat of a Christian theocracy--and although our system of government has definately evolved since then, our basic moral laws, beliefs, and values have not.
12 posted on 09/09/2001 11:15:33 AM PDT by Rebeckie
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To: Cicero
The Democrats and the body-part salesmen will keep bringing it back up and chipping away at it until he or his successor gives in again. It will lose Bush a substantial number of votes in the next election.

It will gain him 50 votes for every one lost. Everyone has loved ones whose lives could be saved.

Is it evil, is it wrong, maybe but that has never stopped people before.
The Government can get in the game now, and exert some small amount of control, or they can stay out, and the work will be done in third world countries by pharmaceutical companies with no scruples but the bottom line

That is the real choice. The Genie is out of the bottle and this will not be stopped.

So9

13 posted on 09/09/2001 11:15:38 AM PDT by Servant of the Nine
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To: Rebeckie
Many Americans believe that a murder is an unlawful killing in God's eyes. It would be detrimental for a society to derive their morals and ethics from themselves because we are not perfect and one's logic can all too often be flawed and one's conscience all too easily corrupted.

If we are going to use the standard of 'unlawful in God's eyes' then we must leave all judgement and punishment to God.

If the judgement and punishment are to be here and now, then they must be by man's agreed laws. For whose interpretation of Gods laws is to be authoratative?
Yours? or mine?

So9

14 posted on 09/09/2001 11:20:39 AM PDT by Servant of the Nine
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To: Belial
I can somewhat understand the logic of believing that abortion cannot be legally defined as murder, but homicide means the killing of one person by another and unless you do not believe that a fetus is a living entity, I don't understand how the word "killing" does not apply to abortion. Because whether or not you believe a fetus is a real human being, life is still being killed.
15 posted on 09/09/2001 11:20:42 AM PDT by Rebeckie
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To: Servant of the Nine
From their wacky website

I Bush obviously violated the principles of legitimate human medical research. But as important as violating the Nuremberg precedents is, there is another component to Bush's decision that has literally world-changing consequences. Not only does Bush ignore the Nuremberg precedents, his decision confuses people about a fundamental tenet of the Christian faith; namely, that people, all people, were bought and paid for by Jesus Christ, and are His actual legal possession whether they like it or not, or whether they know it or not. This question of who actually owns human beings has been egregiously confused by George W. Bush's catastrophic mistake. George Bush is enormously confusing because he claims to be a Christian. Nobody really gets confused when clearly Satanic and demon-possessed people like Bill Clinton make clear they think that human beings are nothing more than objects created to fulfill Bill Clinton's personal hungers and felt needs. But when someone like George W. Bush, who the public actually thinks is a Christian, begins to treat human beings as commodities owned by we the people, then massive and fatal confusion is created. Here's why people get confused: A Christian is expected to act in harmony with Jesus Christ. Obviously no Christian does that all the time; that's why confession of sin is so important to a Christian's ability to avoid confusing the world about Jesus Christ. Now if the Christian does something wrong but acts like they think they're doing the right thing, the public logically thinks Jesus Christ would have acted the same way. To put George W. Bush's decision in perspective, ask yourself this question: Do you think Jesus Christ is indifferent or even in favor of people, under any circumstances whatsoever, being bought and sold as commodities? Before you wade in and declare that it is preposterous to think that Jesus Christ would allow people being bought and sold as slaves, consider this: It is a historical fact that before the War Between the States in 1861, a huge coalition of the most educated Christian theologians in the USA were persuaded that Holy Scripture taught that God Almighty was noncommittal on the question of human slavery. Furthermore, internationally acclaimed leaders of antebellum Christian culture taught that, given the stone-age conditions, impoverishment and, in their opinions, almost bestial conditions in which Africans lived on the African continent, that it was arguably a totally positive thing to bring Africans to live in the United States of America as chattel slaves. Could it be that WASP Christians like George W. Bush might be genetically predisposed in the flesh to take human beings and turn them into slaves? Virtually every pre-Civil War Slave-Holding Southern Aristocrat was a professing Christian exactly like George W. Bush. And this point has been duly recorded. The world knows full well that WASP Christians like George W. Bush come from a long line of Christians who historically justified anything that could be pragmatically seen to be necessary for either their financial, political or physical survival. One thing is for certain, George W. Bush's stemcell decision has opened the floodgates for a thriving human body parts sales enterprise that is going to make somebody many millions of dollars. And no wonder. Bush justified his decision by saying the people who the stem cells belonged to were already dead and their stem cells would be wasted if not put to use. The same thing could have been said about the eyeballs of the kid we executed for the Oklahoma City bombing. Those eyeballs were in really good condition and would have no doubt been enormously helpful in allowing some vision impaired person to see. Now that Bush has established, through his stemcell precedent, the principle that Jesus Christ does not require people to give their consent for their body parts to be used after their death, we can begin harvesting body parts not only from executed criminals but from any person killed in an accident. Consent is no longer a fundamental prerequisite. All that is required is the living must be able to benefit from the harvested body parts. Given the Bush family's well-documented ability to profit from financial opportunities, it will be interesting to see what stock is added to their portfolio in the years ahead. Obviously I will not be popular for saying these things. I can already hear quote pro-life people saying that Bush was not talking about harvesting the body parts of adults, but of children below the age of consent. In that case, the quote pro-life people say, their parents were legally allowed to give the required consent. Can you not see that idea opens the door to the pits of hell? Don't you know that there is a huge pool of parents who would start popping out embryos and fetuses and even partial birth aborted full term babies to supply a lucrative body parts market? Surrogates will be advertising in every available media! That is exactly the market that George W. Bush has made it appear Jesus Christ is willing to participate in! It's blasphemy! There is another name for what happens when Christians like George W. Bush confuse people about what Jesus Christ is really like. It is called idolatry. If we produce a distorted image of Jesus Christ, we are actually producing an image of a different God. That is idolatry, pure and simple. That is what George W. Bush did on television the other night. He produced a false image of Jesus Christ. What George W. Bush did was idolatry and was disgraceful for the USA. What's really scary is there is even a real possibility that George W is saved in the long run. Perhaps George W. Bush does believe that Jesus Christ died for his sins and was raised from the grave. But, even granting that George W. Bush might be saved, there is no doubt that the stem cell research decision has made him a living embodiment of the fact that a Christian might be saved for eternity but live on earth in the here and now as an evil collaborator with baby butchers whose conscience has been totally defiled by the wiles of Satan.

16 posted on 09/09/2001 11:21:56 AM PDT by Paul_E_Ester
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To: marajade
Couldn't tell it by all the Keyes' articles lately. Maybe Keyes lives in his own realities.

Maybe all 200 of Keyes supporters are on FR?

So9

17 posted on 09/09/2001 11:22:21 AM PDT by Servant of the Nine
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To: Rebeckie
A wart on my wrist is a living thing. That does not give it rights. If a fetus is viable outside the womb, then I think it is a human and has rights and deserves protection. If it is not viable then it is no more than a wart, it may be removed without compunction.

So9

18 posted on 09/09/2001 11:25:44 AM PDT by Servant of the Nine
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To: sinkspur

He was on FOXNEWS last Thursday, and accused John Gibson of complicity in murder because Gibson didn't feature pictures of aborted babies on his show.

Horsely may have a right to free speech, but I'll bet he's already been visited by the Secret Service, and they're going to watch him like a hawk.

Horsely does as much damage to the pro-life movement with stuff like this and the "abortion webcam" as Kate Michaelman does.

This is once again the law of unintended consequences. Not only will Horsely be monitored, but anyone who associates with him will come under survelliance. It's not just the website, but his open affiliation with the Army of God (see the HBO special, "Soldier in the Army of God;" one pro-life friend who watched it said he turned it off when one person described his do-it-yourself circumcision).

This may not be a direct threat to President Bush, but it's definitely brought attention--not of the kind Horsely wants--to himself and his associates.

And given that he told John Gibson and Judge Napolitano that they were collaborators (to murder, similar to statements made by another freeper on another thread, that AG John Ashcroft is an accomplice to murder, or words to that effect), it's not going to get him back on Fox anytime soon--except to have him on to bash him.

IMHO, putting Horsely on as a representative of the pro-life movement hurts much more than it helps.

19 posted on 09/09/2001 11:25:56 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Servant of the Nine
I agree with you partially, in the books Acts and Romans in the Bible, God does give certain authority to the government to punish the misdeeds of man. I do not believe in punishing abortionists and those women that have had abortions, that part is up to God's own interpretation and decision. But Abortion in the United States should not be legal, this is the part where we humans have erred, instead of looking through numerous passages in the Bible, which clearly state that human life begins at conception and that only God has the right to give and take life, we made into law, the definition of where life begins, which was and is wrong.
20 posted on 09/09/2001 11:28:15 AM PDT by Rebeckie
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