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To: Prism
This is a strawman argument.

The State that sets requirements for driving is not limiting your right to travel. You can always hitch a ride with a licensed driver or call a taxi. The State is setting rules on an activity where you can easily kill or maim other law abiding citizens such as myself, my wife and my two kids.

If you wish, you may buy a 90 foot sailboat and attempt to sail it around the Horn from New York to Alaska without any sailing training or license whatsoever. You will probably die but, as it is unlikely that you will ram and sink other people's boats and kill them as well, the State is willing to let you commit suicide if you so desire.

Automobiles are another matter. An untrained driver is very likely to kill or maim other citizens once he gets behind the wheel of an automobile that can travel at 85 MPH.

The same can be said about airplanes. When you plow your Piper Cub into a suburb because you do not now your alieron from a hole in the ground, you not only commit suicide but you are killing other innocent citizens.

The State will allow you to drive an automobile without a license on a private road on private property but will not allow you to drive on a public road without a license that is earned by demonstrating the skill to drive safely and will not allow you to drive on a public road when you are dead drunk no matter how expert a driver you are or how many State Driver's licenses you have earned.

In short, the State is lenient when you decide to kill yourself but draws the line once you have a good chance of killing others.

As a citizen, I have a right not to be run over and killed by you as I am walking down a sidewalk or driving down the street because you do not posses the driving skills required to obtain a driving license. My wife and children also have the right not to be killed in such a manner.

If you insist on absolute rights as a Sovereign individual, then here is one solution for balancing your "right to travel" by any means you desire and my "right to life" and my "right to self defense":

Drivers can voluntarilly take driving tests and prove their driving competency to the State or a private driver's education company. The State can then post the names of those drivers that prove driving competancy on a web page. If unlicensed drivers are recognized by other citizens and are seen to be driving on public roads, then other citizens shall be given the right to legally shoot them on sight in self defense.

Such a solution would balance your claimed absolute right to "travel" with my "right to life" and my "right to self defense". It would also be a great benefit to those citizens who can't get enough time off from work during deer season but still want to enjoy the thrill of the hunt.

75 posted on 09/09/2001 7:29:32 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius
If unlicensed drivers are recognized by other citizens and are seen to be driving on public roads, then other citizens shall be given the right to legally shoot them on sight in self defense.

Such a solution would balance your claimed absolute right to "travel" with my "right to life" and my "right to self defense". It would also be a great benefit to those citizens who can't get enough time off from work during deer season but still want to enjoy the thrill of the hunt.

Ha! Glad I dropped in for a look.

82 posted on 09/09/2001 7:54:02 AM PDT by dighton
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To: Polybius
Do you understand the difference between a privilege granted by the state and a right regulated by the state under its police powers?

88 posted on 09/09/2001 8:21:30 AM PDT by William Terrell
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To: Polybius
" Drivers can voluntarilly take driving tests and prove their driving competency to the State or a private driver's education company. The State can then post the names of those drivers that prove driving competancy on a web page. If unlicensed drivers are recognized by other citizens and are seen to be driving on public roads, then other citizens shall be given the right to legally shoot them on sight in self defense."

Why does not your analysis apply to firearms, as well?

91 posted on 09/09/2001 8:45:47 AM PDT by telos
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To: Polybius
Automobiles are another matter. An untrained driver is very likely to kill or maim other citizens once he gets behind the wheel of an automobile that can travel at 85 MPH.

Ok. Forget the legal mumbo jumbo, Im going to repeat my last post:

Every activity that does not harm or unreasonably endanger others is a right. Any other definition of rights is arbritrary, inconsistant and unsupportable. Automobile operation is not an inherently dangerous activity (if it IS, then why do all these people get to endanger me as a pedestrian?? Because they took a 20 question test and drove around the block once?)

Spare me.

If driving is so dangerous, then why are people allowed to drink (0.08) and drive?

If driving is so dangerous, why are people allowed to drive after they DO get a DUI?

If driving is so dangerous, why am I allowed to keep my license my entire life without retesting?

If driving is so dangerous, why don't you have to piss in a cup when you get pulled over?

All these things are far more significant than me getting in a car and simply driving.

I am not saying the roads should be lawless, nor that driving rights cannot be taken from you.

I have objections to the (lawless) system as it is, it is all about money, not justice. It is about forfeiting your rights TO JUSTICE in order to function in a modern world.

97 posted on 09/09/2001 9:43:24 AM PDT by Prism
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To: Polybius
If you wish, you may buy a 90 foot sailboat and attempt to sail it around the Horn from New York to Alaska without any sailing training or license whatsoever. You will probably die but, as it is unlikely that you will ram and sink other people's boats and kill them as well, the State is willing to let you commit suicide if you so desire.

Automobiles are another matter. An untrained driver is very likely to kill or maim other citizens once he gets behind the wheel of an automobile that can travel at 85 MPH.

The same can be said about airplanes. When you plow your Piper Cub into a suburb because you do not now your alieron from a hole in the ground, you not only commit suicide but you are killing other innocent citizens.

------------------------------------

Your airplane example is, in actuality, more like the sailboat than autos. While there is a FAA licence, the chances of EVER being asked to show one to any offical is virtually nil unless/until you have an accident.

Private flying is essentially unpoliced. -- Like ocean sailing, you are a damn fool, and will rapidly suffer the consequences, if you sail or fly without learning the art.

And no scrap of paper from a 'licensing authority' means that you are actually qualified, any more than a drivers license makes me feel safe next to my peers on the freeway at 85.

Licensing is about power & control, not safety.

100 posted on 09/09/2001 10:02:31 AM PDT by tpaine
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