Posted on 09/08/2001 12:49:21 PM PDT by t-shirt
ACLU Criticizes Court Ruling On Gun Search
Judges OK Police Inquiries About Guns
Posted: 9:03 a.m. CDT September 7, 2001
OKLAHOMA CITY -- An appeals court ruling allowing police to ask stopped motorists if they have a loaded gun is winning praise from prosecutors and police and criticism from the American Civil Liberties Union.
Ruling in a case from Muldrow, Okla., the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals decided 5-4 Wednesday that officers can ask that question even if they don't suspect weapons are in the vehicle.
"How many of these things have to happen before we realize we're living in a police state and not a place governed by the Constitution?" asked Michael Salem, a volunteer attorney with the ACLU.
Salem said the ruling gives officers too much leeway and will make motorists feel pressured.
"This ruling takes away the presumption that a person is a law-abiding citizen," Salem said. "It's not the guilty ones I'm worried about. I'm concerned about innocent people subjected to unnecessary searches by officers trying to assert their authority."
Acting U.S. Attorney Sheldon Sperling, whose case resulted in the ruling, said the decision doesn't amount to an invasion of privacy.
"The reality is that law enforcement is dangerous and them asking a question doesn't mean the Constitution is suspended," he said.
Lt. Chris West, spokesman for the Oklahoma Highway Patrol, said not every stopped motorist is asked about having a weapon. But he said officers should have the right to ask the question.
"I think it's a small minority of citizens that would think it's intrusive," he said.
In its ruling, the appeals court reinstated evidence obtained after Dennis Dayton Holt told officers in Muldrow he had a loaded gun in the cab of his pickup.
After Holt consented to having officers look for the gun, police searched his camper shell and found methamphetamine.
A lower court threw out the drug evidence, saying the officers violated the Fourth Amendment's guarantee against unreasonable searches and seizures.
The full appeals court agreed to rehear the case after a three-judge panel upheld the lower court's ruling.
Judges Carlos Lucero and Stephanie Seymour in their joint dissent said the ruling contradicts earlier U.S. Supreme Court rulings that limit a traffic stop's scope and reasonableness.
"The average American citizen stopped for speeding while hurrying to drop children off at school will not only find (being asked about a loaded weapon) bizarre, but more than minimally intrusive," the judges wrote.
Gun report gathers cops
Story By Sharon Dunn
Posted on Saturday, September 08 @ 02:59:27 EDT (103 reads)
A teenager set a flurry of Greeley cops in motion Friday after a resident noticed the teen playing with a gun in a car at the Wells Fargo Bank downtown. After stopping the car a block from the bank on 10th Street and 11th Avenue, several police officers drew their guns, ready for fire. Traffic was diverted as curious onlookers witnessed a real-life version of “Cops.”
But their bad guy turned out to be a 17-year-old Greeley boy with a shiny BB gun who was with a very frightened mother, sister in-law and her baby.
JAY QUADRACCI / quadracci@greeleytrib.com Greeley Police sergeant Rusty Mellon holds up a BB gun that looks like a real semi-automatic handgun while other police officers search a Chevy Camaro for other possible weapons on 11th Street at 11th Avenue. A boy in the vehicle was seen with the gun at the downtown Greeley Wells Fargo Bank, and police stopped the vehicle a block away after receiving the tip.
“That’s the most realistic BB gun I’ve ever seen,” Sgt. Rusty Mellon said at the scene. “He’s going to be strongly advised if he is going to have a toy (gun), he better not have it in his hand, in a car near a bank.
“It concerned a citizen enough to flag down a cop.”
The resident who saw the teen flagged down a Greeley policeman at the Weld District Courthouse. The teen, who was wearing a tight, black stocking on his head, was working the slide on top of the stainless steel semi-automatic replica. Mellon said it looked like a 9 mm Baretta.
“I’ve seen people get hurt with a lot less in their hand,” Mellon said.
After a check of identification, a search of his mother’s car, and a stern warning from police, the teen was on his way looking somewhat dismayed.
The police kept his toy.
(Toy Gun Confiscation now!!!)
http://www.greeleytrib.com/index.php
well, t-shirt, what’ll ya bet his aclu days are over? in utah, i’m told
concealed permit carriers are required to tell leos if they are
carrying at the time of a traffic stop. i’m still searching
the state code for that... but it is not required of anyone else. right.
it’s also my understanding that a felon carrying a gun
doesn’t have to admit it due to the self-incrimination
implications (5th amendment). odd stuff.
i imagine leos have carry permits cross referenced to driver licenses...
i’d hand the man my carry permit with my drivers license if i was carrying...
and ask him how he would like to proceed.
on the upside, i haven’t been stopped in twenty years...
Correct
The very sad thing is, he's right...
Just bust their butts the same way they are trying to do to us. Make them nervous knowing all the time you don't have one in the car.
Watch out minorities everywhere! If you are part of a minority, you no longer have any Consitutional protection, according to Lt. Chris West.
Reminds me of recently buying a gun (from a cop) in the parking lot of a bank.
Nervous guard glad to see us leave.
Agree!
Well, that makes sense, I think it's a small minority of citizens that think -- at all!
Belief in democracy is an indicator of intelligence:
People who think <------------+
democracy is good |
|
|
+-----> Victims of other peoples idiocy
Population |
^ |
| * |
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| * * |
| * * |
| * * |
| * * |
| * * |
| * * |
| * * |
| * * |
| * * |
| * *
| * | *
|* | *
+------------------------------------------> Intelligence
|
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+------> People who understand why democracy is bad
|
|
Perpetrators of idiocy <---+
Why democracy 'works': People find it easier to deny thier own stupidity
than attempt to understand or accept wisdom of
those more intelligent than themselves.
um... so show me a link to where the aclu has ever taken a
pro second amendment stance...
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