The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 139

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | sinkspur

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Threads 1-99

Thread 100	Thread 101	Thread 102	Thread 103	Thread 104	Thread 105	Thread 106	Thread 107
Thread 108	Thread 109	Thread 110	Thread 111	Thread 112	Thread 113	Thread 114	Thread 115
Thread 116	Thread 117	Thread 118	Thread 119	Thread 120	Thread 121	Thread 122	Thread 123
Thread 124	Thread 125	Thread 126	Thread 127	Thread 128	Thread 129	Thread 130	Thread 131
Thread 132	Thread 133	Thread 134	Thread 135	Thread 136	Thread 137

The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 138

[RobbyS]

You can throw me in as a "convert". Although I was baptized as a Catholic as a child, I was reared pretty much as a Protestant until I was past 14, attending a Presbyterian Church for five years before that and I already had an unusual interest in religion.

[SoothingDave]

The New York football Giants on ABC's Monday Night Football. 1st regular season game at the new state of the art "Invesco Field". Welcome back.

Thanks. Next Sunday night we get to Christen brand new Heinz Field by playing (who else?) the Brownies.

SD

[pegleg]

we did," Gentile(Pilate) and Jew (the Sanhedrin)alike ;" and b) so that we could recognize it was both a sin of ommission and both a sin of commission which laid Jesus in his tomb.

Excellent observation Al. I never thought of it in the sense of sins of omission and commission. We are all accountable here.

[SoothingDave]

Oh yeah, cradle Catholic from an unbroken line of cradle Catholics going back to St. Patrick on my father's side. (I imagine, anyway.) My mom was English and Swedish and Methodist, but she did the old "pre-Cana" classes and converted before marriage. And never looked back.

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

the Brownies.

Is that still a rivalry whatwith the expansion blues and all?

[RobbyS]

Well, there you have it folks. What do you think? I think it DOES dispose of Crossan's contention that the body of Jesus, like that of any other criminal. would have been left for the dogs to consume. The authorities are portrayed as being concerned that his disciples might steal away the body. What better way to avoid this than making sure it was "out on ice" so to speak.

[SoothingDave]

Is that still a rivalry whatwith the expansion blues and all?

You bet. You can't turn off emotions this strong. The first year the "Ravens" played in 3 Rivers the PA announcer kept calling them the "Browns" accidentally. Now with the new divisions next year Pittsburgh will be sitting in the catbird's seat, in the AFC North, with the Browns, the "Browns-in-disguse" Baltimore Birdies, and the hapless Cincy Bungles.

SD

[RobbyS]

Animals have no soul. Offbeat question - how do we know for sure?. If one uses scholastic terminology, the soul is the form of the body. Thus there is a hierarchy of souls: mineral-->vegetable--> animal--> human. We have rational souls.

[malakhi]

What do you think?

I think you make some excellent points. And I think I will need to take the time to read it more thoroughly and think about it before offering any comment.

[malakhi]

I am so sick of this thread. Please let it go away.

Then don't read it. (Doh!)

[malakhi]

Hey. So when you go to a Packers game what are you throwing on the grill? Bratwurst?

As long as it is beef bratwurst. I actually prefer hamburgers. Heresy, I know, but I'm not native to the state.

The McDonald's brats are Johnsonville, which is surprising (because Johnsonville actually makes good brats!)

[malakhi]

with the new divisions next year Pittsburgh will be sitting in the catbird's seat, in the AFC North, with the Browns, the "Browns-in-disguse" Baltimore Birdies, and the hapless Cincy Bungles.

Hardly seems fair. Although we know from experience that the Steelers will find a way to lose all their best players to free agency.

[malakhi]

BTW, I will make the following prediction:

In the 2002 NFL draft, Pittsburgh selects Antwaan Randle El from Indiana University as their first round pick. The Steelers thus become the first team in league history to swap quarterback and receiver positions every other play.

;o)

[SoothingDave]

Let me say that I understand the rationale behind the entiree sacrifical system. I understand how it all prefigures Christ's perfect sacrifice that atoned for all sin. What I don't understand is the necessary connection and the necessity of death to atone for sin. It just strikes me as so arbitrary.

This is actually quite a thought-provoking comment. Indeed, why does blood need to be spilled to atone for sins?

Blood sacrifice and offerings seems to be such a natural human response. Pagans do it, some even sacrifice humans, to the gods. If one takes an evolutionary viewpoint in our relationship with God, we can see that the Israelites had to first learn that human sacrifice was wrong, then learn that there was only one God, that the personal family god was the creator tribal god. Then that the other tribal gods were not true, did not exist. That there truly was one God, not only of Israel but of all peoples.

Along the way the Law (and its sacrificial offerings) became a ceremonial way for the Chosen People to keep themselves separate. What God was preparing us for was the replacement of external sacrifice with "the sacrifice of our hearts and minds."

I think angelo would contend that this step of discontinuing the external sacrifice was the natural growth trajectory of the Jewish faith, while we say that it took the dramatic step of the Christ to bring this point across. We can certainly debate that. The point remains the same, that we know at some point in history, when we were more primitive, God was pleased with such sacrifice. But now He wants not external sacrifice but a true conversion of the will.

SD

[SoothingDave]

As long as it is beef bratwurst. I actually prefer hamburgers. Heresy, I know, but I'm not native to the state.

The McDonald's brats are Johnsonville, which is surprising (because Johnsonville actually makes good brats!)

Duh! No pork sausage for you. I forgot. The Johnsonville one's are good and finding them in McDonald's is fortuitous. I did see in the grocery store "stadium style" brats that look grey. Do you know what's up with that? They don't look like something I'd want to eat. They look like they've been sitting out way too long.

Although we know from experience that the Steelers will find a way to lose all their best players to free agency.

Hey now. Maybe with our new Heinz Field money we'll be able to buy a little more. Heck, we got two $5 million cornerbacks. (Unfortunately, it's just the guys from last year making more money than they're worth).

In the 2002 NFL draft, Pittsburgh selects Antwaan Randle El from Indiana University as their first round pick. The Steelers thus become the first team in league history to swap quarterback and receiver positions every other play.

If it's the same Indiana U that got beat up last night, forget about it. Though the name "Antwaan Randle El" would fit right in with our Chris Fu'amatu-Ma'afala and Kimo Von Olhaufen

SD

[trad_anglican]

If Jesus had merely said some prayers or something, since he was God, this would have had infinite value, and so paid the debt.

I disagree, but I fear we're getting into an area where we can do nothing but speculate wildly. God could have chosen any way He wanted to affect our justification. Our response to the supreme act of love that He chose, being aware that He created us and knows us better than we could ever know ourselves, ought to be confidence that the method chosen was the best, not some arbitrary selection from a range of options.

[D-fendr]

I agree with you in large measure, and posted something similar to Angelo a while back. The sacrifice framework was the archetype, the development, or revelation, of religion had to be put into that conversation; it could be put into others as well, but this was the minimal requirement for human understanding getting from A to B.

As I believe Angelo has pointed out, many of the things we see as being harsh pronouncements are actually a move towards less "cruel" forms. The evolution of sacrifice also fits here.

It's interesting that those cultures tending toward planting, and having more matriarchical society and goddess dieties also tended more towards human sacrifice. Here, it's theorized, the link between life/death/earth was more tangible, and a common theme is new life requires death; the new generation can only come into being after the old generation passes.

[gracebeliever]

I know I'm missing some people, so speak up and let me know who you are.

You made some good points on converts - probably true. However the issue shouldn't be converting to a church or denomination, or a religion in the case of Judaism, but to do as the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ commissioned the apostle Paul, "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." (Acts 26:18) We should trust God and believe in His Son and in His Word. That's what we should be about so we can look back and see "how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God." (1Thess. 1:9) We don't need to convert people to a specific church to do and believe this.

[trad_anglican]

I did see in the grocery store "stadium style" brats that look grey.

They're probably pre-cooked, steamed most likely. Sometimes we boil the brats in beer before putting them on the grill and they turn that nasty grey color. But they still taste great. As a dislocated cheesehead, I feel qualified to chime in on this topic.