Posted on 12/03/2025 6:23:04 AM PST by marshmallow
"What we have tried to do, and I think have made some progress, is figure out what can the Ukrainians live with that gives them security guarantees for the future," US Secretary of State said
NEW YORK, December 3. /TASS/. US Secretary of State Marco Rubio said that the key subject of dispute in the negotiations on the settlement of the conflict in Ukraine is the remaining 20% of the territory of the DPR under Kiev's control.
"What they're literally fighting over now is about 30 to 50 kilometer space and the 20% of the Donetsk region that remains [under Ukrainian control]. What we have tried to do, and I think have made some progress, is figure out what can the Ukrainians live with that gives them security guarantees for the future," Rubio said Tuesday in an interview with Fox News.
On December 2, Russian Leader Vladimir Putin received US president's special envoy Steve Witkoff and businessman Jared Kushner, the son-in-law of US President Donald Trump, in the Kremlin. The key topic was the settlement in Ukraine. The conversation lasted about five hours. According to Russian Presidential Aide Yury Ushakov, the key ideas of the proposals from four documents of the American peace plan were discussed.
“DPR”
Hey, don’t bother defining your acronyms, or anything. FReepers all know that “DPR” stands for Dual-frequency Precipitation Radar.
The Donetsk People’s Republic no longer exists.
It’s Donetsk Oblast, claimed by both Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
“security guarantees for the future”
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Watch out for that. Somehow, someway we’re going to get dragged into this morass. We’ve already spent an immense amount of time, energy and money on this conflict that Europe should have stepped up to resolve. Ukraine is in their backyard after all. We just cannot seem to stay out of the never ending foreign problems, no matter what party is in power. We need to focus more on the problems we have right here at home. America First.
That issue should be resolved by Russia within weeks, maybe months
At the cost of tens of thousands more lives…vast majority Ukrainian
But it will be resolved
By spring this will become a moot point as Russia will have liberated the remaining 20% of occupied DPR.
Then the question of conceding Odessa and/or Kharkiv will become an issue for the Kiev regime to wrestle with.
“figure out what can the Ukrainians live with that gives them security guarantees for the future”
These are security guarantees that I think EU citizens and Americans can live with:
Monetary aid from the US and EU to enable Ukraine to retain in military service its battle-hardened military personnel
[I suggest up to $12 billion/year, up to a total of $200 billion.]
The Ukrainian right to buy for source country money listed weapons [Patriots, anti-aircraft weapons, artillery shells, missiles] from the US, EU and possibly the UK at prices in line with what the source entity government(s) would pay, subject to such restrictions as the law of the EU itself may impose
“What they’re literally fighting over now is about 30 to 50 kilometer space and the 20% of the Donetsk region that remains [under Ukrainian control]. What we have tried to do, and I think have made some progress, is figure out what can the Ukrainians live with that gives them security guarantees for the future,” Rubio said Tuesday in an interview with Fox News.
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Of course, ceding that 20% gives the Russians instant access to the rest of Ukraine, as the ground is basically flat and indefensible along the Dnieper River. Taking them quickly to Kiev, and total surrender.
Rubio seems to have succumbed to the (t)Rump Witkoff, Kershner real estate barons, looking to make big money with Russia deals - perhaps a shared Nobel prize as well.
Getting their wish will set the stage for a far wider war, even more blood and death, but that’s beside the point.
“By spring this will become a moot point as Russia will have liberated the remaining 20% of occupied DPR.”
The Ukrainians have done an amazing job holding on there so far.
“looking to make big money with Russia deals”
The oligarchs and smaller Russian businesspeople will not want US companies to have access to the Russian market again.
Investments equal in sum to many billions of US dollars have been placed into investments to replace imports and Western brands.
No, they haven’t.
I fear POTUS is going to “guarantee” Ukrainian security with US forces.
If it turns out that way it would be a major strategic error.
I can’t get around the fact that Russia carried out *another* territory grabbing aggressive war, and now acts like it can negotiate its way into keeping stolen territory.
It is reminiscent of the histrionics displayed by the Nazis in their own bad-faith negotiations.
1. Make demands when offering nothing tangible in return.
2. When the weaklings agree to sacrifices by the victims, keep adding more demands to the list.
3. Keep going, because weaklings never grow a spine, yet will pressure victims to be compliant and submit.
“Rubio Calls Remaining 20% of DPR Under Kiev’s Control Key Point of Contention in Talks”
Believe it or not, this is PROGRESS by Rubio, rather than talking about re-claiming the 80% that Russia now has.
Great to see things finally moving in the right direction, now that Trump understands that Kellogg was LYING to him non-stop.
“By spring this will become a moot point as Russia will have liberated the remaining 20% of occupied DPR. Then the question of conceding Odessa and/or Kharkiv will become an issue for the Kiev regime to wrestle with.”
Very true, but Odessa and Kharkiv will also be quickly liberated, should Trump FINALLY disengage from Ukraine.
“Rubio seems to have succumbed to the (t)Rump Witkoff, Kershner real estate barons, looking to make big money with Russia deals - perhaps a shared Nobel prize as well.”
Sorry that Rubio no longer drinks the Ukraine Koolaid, but he had no choice, as he would have been jettisoned like Kellogg if he continued to live in his own fantasy world...a world where weapons and troops (and rare earth, for that matter) materialize out of thin air.
“I can’t get around the fact that Russia carried out *another* territory grabbing aggressive war, and now acts like it can negotiate its way into keeping stolen territory.”
Likewise, a lot of us struggle to believe that we went around the world bombing the shit out of countries that weren’t even posing a threat to us, at all - starting with Yugoslavia, including Kosovo, and Libya.
Russia at least had DOCUMENTED THREATS to their country before moving on Ukraine.
Looks like the main disagreements left will be settled on the ground, not at big tables.
I wonder how many ethnic Russians even live in the remaining 20% of Donetsk oblast, which has been a battleground under Ukrainian control for years. Does this rump area contain valuable minerals, industry, pipeline, etc. the Russians consider critical to overall viability of Donetsk?
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