Posted on 07/23/2025 10:18:13 PM PDT by delta7
We’ve saved Europe twice. That’s enough.
Regards,
Historically, Communists are not a reaction to Nazis but the other way around. Russians are not reacting to a threat from Ukrainians, but the other way around. The Stalinist occupation of central Europe was not caused by NATO but the other way around. NATO is not a threat to Russia, but the other way around.
So, you read the draft and thought it was... Rational? Reasonable? Possible?
NATO has had an open door policy from its inception. Every member of NATO signed up to it. That’s why the USA gave *informal* assurances eg that NATO wouldn’t bring east Germany into the alliance if it ever broke free of the Soviet Union. No NATO member can stop a country applying, but any NATO member can block their membership.
Putin has had the exact same kind of informal assurances that satisfied every single Soviet Union leader, from MULTIPLE NATO members, for over 20 years.
It doesn’t matter how much Washington wanted Ukraine to join the club; it was obvious and explicitly confirmed the club members were never going to let it happen.
Any half sane leader of Russia would’ve seen “NATO expansion” as a nothing burger, the only real beef to have is that ex Soviet countries were even looking to join NATO, instead of enthusiastically throwing their lot into the Yugo Zastava poundshop version of NATO, aka CSTO.
Russia remained toxic in its own sphere of influence despite all the bonhomie of the Belovezha Accords. That’s the real root cause of EU NATO expansion.
And even Putin himself said multiple times that EU NATO expansion didn’t bother him.
Yet by 2021, after a good fifteen years of zero ACTUAL provocation, with ZERO attempts by Ukraine to join NATO and ZERO effort to put Ukraine on a roadmap to membership, Putin wanted the USA to unilaterally tear a foundational pillar of NATO - that even Stalin didn’t object to - up. Despite it NOT being the root cause of decreasing Russian influence.
Impossible. Irrational. Putin, don’t be a retard. Next.
No NATO exercises on NATO territory without permission from Putin? Do one, you retarded angry ex cabbie.
Yet by 2021, after a good fifteen years of zero ACTUAL provocation, with ZERO attempts by Ukraine to join NATO and ZERO effort to put Ukraine on a roadmap to membership, Putin wanted the USA to unilaterally tear a foundational pillar of NATO - that even Stalin didn’t object to - up. Despite it NOT being the root cause of decreasing Russian influence.
****************************
The US Ukraine Strategic Partnership was updated on November 10, 2021 by Secretary of State Blinken & Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kubela.
Here is the first part of the preamble of this document:
Preamble
The United States and Ukraine:
1. Reaffirm the importance of our relationship as friends and strategic partners, based both on our shared values and common interests, including a commitment to a Europe that is whole, free, democratic, and at peace. Reiterate that the strategic partnership existing between our two nations is critical for the security of Ukraine and Europe as a whole.
2. Underscore that our partnership is founded on common democratic values, respect for human rights and the rule of law, and a commitment to Ukraine’s implementation of the deep and comprehensive reforms necessary for full integration into European and Euro-Atlantic institutions in order to ensure economic prosperity for its people.
What does full integration into European & Euro-Antlatic institutions mean if not eventual EU & NATO membership?
The Russians didn’t like the direction their little buddie was taking and invaded to stop it.
I think their choice for war was a mistake, but to pretend that Ukraine wasn’t given an unclear path to future NATO membership by the West isn’t factual.
You have to laugh at the breathtaking hypocrisy of the Putin regime.
“Included a reaffirmation that the security of one state cannot come at the expense of the security of another”
If the USA did agree to everything on Putin’s cretinous maximalist shopping list and completely break the foundational pillars of NATO membership, the action would directly impact over a dozen countries who have already rejected Russian domination, and who chose freely to ally with NATO to preserve their security interests..
Russia will do to Ukraine what it already did to Chechnya and Georgia - using the excuse of putting its (entirely fake) “security concerns” first to inflict itself on its neighbours.
That’s the dictionary definition of ensuring that the security interests of one country are being intentionally promoted at the expense of the security interests of multiple other countries.
That’s daft. Putin’s Ultimatum acknowledged that Russia itself had a strategic partnership with the USA and NATO. Putin was hosted and feted at multiple NATO conferences post 2001. Both Ukraine and Russia were in the same ‘partnership for peace’.
There’s nothing in that 2021 offer to Ukraine that Russia hadn’t already been offered multiple times.
The ONLY country not playing ball even with its own existing strategic partnerships was Russia.
It got everything it wanted out of those relationships, but refused to deliver on its commitments to its closest allies (even in CSTO), then bitched about being left on the fringes when it was the only country playing refusenik.
The same bollocks happened with the EU. East Germany was perennially soft towards Russia, as we know Germany even sacrificed its nuclear energy independence to keep Moscow’s fossil fuel lines flowing into Europe.
Russia was gifted a seat on the European Council despite failing the qualifications for it. Russia was invited into practically every trade domain in Europe... And abused the hospitality.
It had VIP seats at every European table from international sports (where it cheated prolifically) and Eurovision (where Putin freaked out because Russia’s biggest success came out of TATU’s steamy two-girls-snogging performance) and tech (IPR theft). Despite constant bad faith from Russia, Europe invited Russia to science councils and let’s not forget, space exploration.
Russia chose to walk away from all of that, after being nothing but disruptive as a member, then had the nerve to present its own walking away as though it was being excluded.
Before the SMO, Russia objected to the EU even having accession benefits and conditions for Ukraine to meet... When the EU offered to talk to Putin about improving the deal Russia had with the EU, he turned that offer down. The whole thing was about Ukraine being offered X if it did Y; Russia wanted X for itself but wasn’t prepared to do Y to earn it.
I could go on.
Oh goody. Here comes the latest version of “It’s all our fault so we should dump endless amounts of money into this **** hole de jeur otherwise we are bad people” argument.
Sorry. Not buying it.
L
whatEVER zeeps ..
Ukraine in NATO, on the heals of no CFE, no more Ballistic Missile Treaty, and us kicking the Russians around in Libya and Syria, invading Iraq (a major trading partner of Russia pre 2003) and sponsoring coups in Venezuela was us pushing things to far.
We are expecting Russia to accept things we would NEVER accept, and we didn’t may it be Panama recently, the Cuban missile crisis or Grenada.
Think about this, we threaten the invasion of Panama because a Chinese civilian firm operates the canal and we see that as a threat to us.
1,900 miles from our border, and 7 counties between us. But then we want to pretend like Russia has no say when the most powerful nation on earth, the most powerful military alliance on earth, 3 nuclear powers (US, France and UK), want to build bases, station troops and possibly base nukes and missile defense on their border.
For 28 YEARS, Russia has been consistent and vocal with the same message. “Do not expand NATO East.” Denying that is a bold face lie: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1131428724346357&vanity=rishibagree (1997 - 28 years ago).
Might makes right, and we are always right. We’ll always find some BS moralistic faux argument to justify our actions with talk about democracy, sovereignty, human rights or WMD. BTW, how democratic is Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Jordan? How have conditions gotten better for the average Iraqi or in Libya after we conducted our regime change there? What sort of human rights record does Saudi Arabia have?
The bottom line is that no one can construct a rational argument for how our actions in Ukraine (1) made the average American any safer, (2) more free (3) or more wealthy.
This is a war serving special interests, economic and political interests, NOT our national security and the average Joe on the street. The average Joe is fed a line of crap about democracy, human rights, sovereignty and WMD to get them to support this mess we created.
It will prove difficult to end this.
Sad thing is, it was NEVER necessary, avoidable (Oct 21 - Jan 22), and predictable that it would happen, as it is predictable how it will ultimately end (no NATO expansion, Ukraine losing a lot of land and being an economic basket case when this is over).
I thought that even leftists had stopped playing the Nazi card.
Thanks for posting. I unsubscribed to this Larry Johnson but Freepers here seem to know just as much about Russia. He did have a personal interview with Russian FM, though. I think I didn’t like his Israel comments either. Don’t remember much, even the TV Shows last week
Larry Johnson
Well said!
No one seems to remember the story about poking the bear.
This is exactly right.
JFK is repeatedly hailed as a hero for the position he took during the Cuban Missile Crisis while Putin is demonized for the same.
Ask most people the difference between the two scenarios, and get a blank, bovine stare in return
“The US Ukraine Strategic Partnership was updated on November 10, 2021”
Russia invaded and seized Crimea in 2014. The planning was underway long, long before that.
Putin wants to steal. Always has.
FTA——
I published the nifty title, “The Trump Coup Is a Threat to Our Republic” on Dec 18, 2018
<><>I am glad the information is finally coming out,
<><>but I knew this seven years ago.
<><>What took them so long?
Dummy-——Tulsi just now got the power to declassify the “revelations.”
You’vereally drawn out all the NATO/neocon propagandists in response to this article!
Not needed- Anything by Larry Johnson is known garbage since the Valerie Plame super dooper deep cover spy nonsense.
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